The new Real Time DAC

[retired_member6]

As far as I can tell, you can have a list of 24,000 domains and still be ok.

i.e.

dropping today;

doifjolfj.co.uk
jkhbfjab.co.uk
ejhavjcwj.co.uk
sacjhbdbkbkcblnc.co.uk
kjBCKdbkcbj.co.uk

x 24,000

Nothing wrong with that, droplists can continue, level head on today. Quotas are staying the same, nothing changed, pretty much makes prss obselete though if not searching one registrant and even then they will have to delete information as they go. tricky for nominet to enforce the rules. Why have rules that can't be enforced? "Don't eat bread at lunch" How they going to know?

 

[foz]

I would have thought you would be in breach if you stored "domain names".

If the output strips the extension and notes y/n to suspension. How could Nominet claim IP rights on that? It's a "keyword" only.

 

[monaghan]

so does anyone think a list of keywords with a significiant date alongside may continue to be sold?

 

[foz]

so does anyone think a list of keywords with a significiant date alongside may continue to be sold?

I envisage the keyword list would all be suspended state, so no dates.

 

[rob]

Why have rules that can't be enforced? "Don't eat bread at lunch" How they going to know?

Well, if you regularly catch domains you therefore must know which are going and when...

I've tried to setup the UKDNA however the industry is so fragmented no one can lead from the front of it. This is why the smaller 'secondary market' meetings work better between smaller 'pockets' of people spread out over the country.

Also in the UK we haven't got people like Michael Collins, Jeremiah Johnson, Rick Latona, Rick Schwartz, Frank Schilling and so on.... No one is willing to pull together resources, time, effort and money to even stand a chance of respresenting the UK secondary market in a good light.

Andrew - in a small way David's post is aimed at you ie. shouting the loudest means you in some eyes have become the defacto 'representative' of domainers and to be honest its not always in the best light.

I cant remember definatively as the site is no longer there, but the UKDNA start up was basically yourself, Adam Burkatally, Mike Toth and I think Tommy Butler (who left early I think). Nothing against any personally, however as a 'trade organisation' it IMHO does not start on the right footing.

The focus on 'domainers' is wrong IMHO as its very rare to have a sole 'domainer' focus, there are alot of elements to it be it software/systems provision, secondary market sales, development etc etc.

There is little point having a narrow focus for any group, Nominet covers areas of interest to people involved in domains and development much further than REQUEST + lookups.

Even if you called an EGM on this issue it would only make then situation worse - then the government would acutally step in and regulation would follow. It doesn't stop you using your vote at the AGM though and voting for people who you think would support the secondary market.

I think this comes under the 'shouting and screaming' part - this would be your second EGM call this year, and its was only just St Davids Day the other day Alot of valid stuff is said however often it gets clouded in frankly unneeded nonsense.

In my opinion the only thing to do from now on is to lobby the top 10 registrars and the big "secondary market" companies like Sedo and even Yahoo/Google into doing something about it.

Given the size of Schlund + Partner AG 1,369,459 they might get 2.5 million lookups on the Time Delay DAC for public facing order processes.....however what happens to their bottom line when we are all not listing/parking names on Sedo? Even hosting sales will be affected as we are not developing names. How can even DomCollect Worldwide Intellectual Property AG get around the DAC T&Cs and continue to catch .uk domains?

Why would the top 10 registrars / Sedo / Yahoo / Google give a toss about mainly sole traders / small businesses who operate in .uk ? Yes they carry more weight, but so would the Russian army but I dont think talking to them would help anyone!

You make some great points - people on here are part of a wider industry eg. every domain developed will need hosting.

Likewise large ISP's claim the added capacity is required to aide client management however with DomCollects surge in registrations, likewise your own time at an ISP, you are aware that the extra quotas probably will be used for catching.

Sensible solutions? Perhaps a delayed DAC that is 10 - 30 or even a minute behind? 100ms is *nothing*.

All good food for thought though.

 

[GreyWing]

Sensible solutions? Perhaps a delayed DAC that is 10 - 30 or even a minute behind? 100ms is *nothing*.

All good food for thought though.

Rob problem is mate that you could come up with an A* solution, that helps everyone and fits everyone's needs and everyone on all sides are happy.

But the people at Nominet have stopped listening to members, this isn't a policy issue in my opinion, it's a character issue of the people in charge. They can't even be bothered to post on NomSteer to say we understand the concerns, stand by. That's all it needs, even if just being polite to people who take time to post.

For me it goes well beyond this case, well beyond the LTIP, it's a case now that Nominet have shut down listening.

Which makes the future very worrying

 

[rob]

Nominet are never known for acting quickly, nor posting anywhere saying "Whoops - will look into that" or the like.

This first gained wider awareness on Thurs / Fri and its Tuesday morning now.

Hopefully a few people have contact Nominet bringing it to their attention directly, likewise are countering the arguements on nom-steer from others who think the terms change is a good idea.

I know what you are saying and why however is it worth trying to talk to Nominet + co at the very least, or just give up ?

 

[GreyWing]

Nominet are never known for acting quickly, nor posting anywhere saying "Whoops - will look into that" or the like.

Not so sure mate, They acted pretty quick in taking down Simon's website for publishing a copy of Jim's resignation letter.

I don't think members would even be as angry even if they came on Nonsteer and said "We have looked into it and the changes are staying in place get used to it".

Fair enough, at least people know where they stand. it's just this bury the head in the sand and hope it all goes away attitude that they seem to try and cling to.

For me personally it's a sign of respect to members that we even get a reply of any kind.

Kind Regards
GW

 

[FC Domains]

The delayed DAC will give a huge advantage to the big players.
The normal DAC can only be accessed on average every 200mS, so a 100mS delay doesn't really amount to much and could be played so that it statistically has very little effect.

So what's needed is £50K to buy a huge block of domains on a single day and so get 2M+ DAC accesses a day for a year. (Probably not worth it.)

Are Nominet allowed to give preferential treatment to some members?

 

[Whois-Search]

Andrew - in a small way David's post is aimed at you ie. shouting the loudest means you in some eyes have become the defacto 'representative' of domainers and to be honest its not always in the best light.

Yes I know that however at least i've tried to make a difference. One of the reasons i've not stood for the PAB again is because i've become too much of a "target".

I cant remember definatively as the site is no longer there, but the UKDNA start up was basically yourself, Adam Burkatally, Mike Toth and I think Tommy Butler (who left early I think). Nothing against any personally, however as a 'trade organisation' it IMHO does not start on the right footing.

The focus on 'domainers' is wrong IMHO as its very rare to have a sole 'domainer' focus, there are alot of elements to it be it software/systems provision, secondary market sales, development etc etc.

A football club is full of footballers, a fishing club is full of fishermen, a caravan club is full of middle aged people.... why should we pretend to be something we are not? Would people actually join a "domain name association" unless you gave them help/resources?

FYI we have decided to make the UKDNA a dormant company for the time being. It did get off on the wrong footing I agree however at least we gave it a good go and had meetings in London etc.

I think this comes under the 'shouting and screaming' part - this would be your second EGM call this year, and its was only just St Davids Day the other day Alot of valid stuff is said however often it gets clouded in frankly unneeded nonsense.

I said there is no reason going for an EGM because of the DAC. An EGM/AGM should be reserved for more important issues like what I have written on Ofnom

Why would the top 10 registrars / Sedo / Yahoo / Google give a toss about mainly sole traders / small businesses who operate in .uk ? Yes they carry more weight, but so would the Russian army but I dont think talking to them would help anyone!

If we all catch less domain names because there are no online drop lists then this will have a knock on effect to the companies we use to backorder/host/register/park/auction. If you take one link out of the chain you break the whole economy....unless of course the large registrars now search their customer database for 'suspended' names and we then have to buy them direct from them.

Likewise large ISP's claim the added capacity is required to aide client management however with DomCollects surge in registrations, likewise your own time at an ISP, you are aware that the extra quotas probably will be used for catching.

I'm still trying to work out why you would actually need 2.5 million extra lookups even if you were the largest member and had aquired several registrars/hosting companies.

It seems to me like the 2 DAC system is to give the large registrars the opportunity to dropcatch however at the same time the new T&Cs reduces the chances of smaller registrars finding names.

 

[newbie]

The delayed DAC will give a huge advantage to the big players.

A consortium of small players with Delayed DAC allowance of 200k each (for example) is possible - just depends if enough can work together to help each other out.

If 13 of us gave a central player our Delayed DAC usage allowance (together with some small fee) we could all benefit the same as the big players and still get our 'keyword' lists

Can 13 of us work together though???

 

[tifosi]

A consortium of small players with Delayed DAC allowance of 200k each (for example) is possible - just depends if enough can work together to help each other out.

If 13 of us gave a central player our Delayed DAC usage allowance (together with some small fee) we could all benefit the same as the big players and still get our 'keyword' lists

Can 13 of us work together though???

Not allowed.

 

[bb99]

Originally Posted by bb99 View Post
I've spotted a typo in the DAC T&Cs:

Clearly it should say "Real" and not "Read".

Can someone at Nominet please send me a biscuit

It's now been changed - I'll be looking out in tomorrow's post for my biscuit, I hope it's a chocolate one ...

Many thanks to the kind soul who has indeed posted me half a chocolate digestive. Unfortunately it got a bit battered in the post.

 

[grantw]

LOL, quality

 

[tifosi]

tight gits! ah well, a biscuit short of a barrel eh...

S

 

[ELIFE-MZ]

Many thanks to the kind soul who has indeed posted me half a chocolate digestive. Unfortunately it got a bit battered in the post.

I am sorry, I will be writing to the local delivery office and I suggest you do the same. It was in perfect condition when it left here

 

[ratboy]

ha ha thats funny.

 

[grantw]

Looks like the responses have been noted:

Latest News

Grant

 

[blacknight]

Looks like the responses have been noted:

Latest News

Grant

Let's see what that actually leads to

 

[rob]

Bearing in mind its Thursday morning thats a decent timeframe for them to have consulted , realise the problems and issue what they have.


We will make a further announcement regarding this matter in due course. If you have any feedback then please do email us.