EU Referendum

[Admin]

I'm glad it's the eve of the result lol. Please EVERYONE try and avoid personal insults, there's been some excellent discussion, good points made and some funny posts, don't get personal.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I am making this post right now. I don't need to quote a source to prove that. Are you seriously still trying to suggest that Bernard Kenny died years ago? That would give me serious concerns for your mental health.

The content is not RELIABLE, because it comes from a source with a proven history of MAKING UP BULLSHIT FOR MONEY. 'Dr Rath' claimed to be able to cure AIDS with vitamins and made millions selling his BULLSHIT CURES. He is responsible for deaths of a large number of AIDS patients. THIS IS NOT A GOOD SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

Seek help, your children deserve better

It's for my children that I look beyond the veneer of a controlled media - thankfully more and more people are.

For the record, you haven't countered any of the content with anything more than flippant remarks.

I made a statement that the EU was started by Nazi's after their defeat in WW2.

I have named people and their roles within the EU. These people created the EU.

Facts are facts....it's undeniable. People, dates, jobs, etc. All there for the record - and you'll find the same information from multiple websites and books, so your rant and probably slanderous comments about the source don't hold any water. And to be technically correct...Dr Rath you mentioned isn't the source, merely the presenter. The source of the information is largely form fairly recently declassified documents.

bonusmedia - hasn't once attempted to disprove any of the content I've posted.

Last comment from me unless you can counter any of the information.

 

[gimpydog]

The average [William Hill] stake on Remain is £408, for Leave it’s £77 - but 70% of all bets have been placed on Britain quitting the EU.

Does that mean 70% have put there money where their mouth is and have voted to leave?

FXTM chief market strategist Hussein Sayed said: “The markets are being completely reliant on the predictions from the bookies, which strongly expect Remain to win the referendum.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/odds-stacked-against-leave-vote-as-clock-ticks-112239796.html

Could be an interesting night on the FX markets.

 

[bonusmedia]

It's for my children that I look beyond the veneer of a controlled media - thankfully more and more people are.

For the record, you haven't countered any of the content with anything more than flippant remarks.

I made a statement that the EU was started by Nazi's after their defeat in WW2.

I have named people and their roles within the EU. These people created the EU.

Facts are facts....it's undeniable. People, dates, jobs, etc. All there for the record - and you'll find the same information from multiple websites and books, so your rant and probably slanderous comments about the source don't hold any water. And to be technically correct...Dr Rath you mentioned isn't the source, merely the presenter. The source of the information is largely form fairly recently declassified documents.

bonusmedia - hasn't once attempted to disprove any of the content I've posted.

Last comment from me unless you can counter any of the information.

If you want something more than a flippant dismissal you have to present something more than outrageous fantasy.

There are certainly many websites and books that will back you up, conspiracy theory is big business. That does not mean they are correct.

If you accept that Dr Rath is a murderous bullshitter but you still believe what he says - why not stop using him as a source and go directly to these declassified documents you refer to?

Though I do have to question the logic for a second - if these documents reveal a hidden conspiracy by Germany to take over the world by stealth via the EU, why would the documents be declassified?

I wish you the very best but I hope you come to recognise that your paranoid delusions are unhealthy.

EDIT: be very careful accusing people of libel/slander: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/12/matthiasrath.aids2

 

[bonusmedia]

​

Does that mean 70% have put there money where their mouth is and have voted to leave?

​

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/odds-stacked-against-leave-vote-as-clock-ticks-112239796.html

Could be an interesting night on the FX markets.

No. Those betting on the outcome are not at all representative of the population.

Hussein Sayed has a very clear interest in encouraging forex trading by suggesting the outcome is uncertain.

The markets are certainly not completely reliant on the 'predictions from the bookies'.

The bookies are not predicting anything, they are adjusting their odds to ensure they maintain an over-round and will thus make money whatever the outcome

 

[VSC]

For now, all I will say is that Hallstein, the first President of the EU, was a legal representative for the Nazis before and throughout WW2. Fact. Check it out anywhere.

Okay, not sure why I am reopening this because I expect that I will just be shouted down and accused of falling for mis-information but ...

Walter Hallstein was never a member of the Nazi party and indeed rejected Nazi ideology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Hallstein
The only "information" I can find to support your theory re Hallstein is on a single website that could easily be accused of mis-representing facts (Also had an interesting article saying that there is good evidence to support that the Earth is hollow). Even so, thousands of people were forced in to the Nazi party just to be able to survive, and it is claimed that Hallstein joined professional organisations that were backed by the Nazi party only so he could carry on being a lawyer. After the war, he was never accused of any "crimes" and resumed his civilian life. England was saved invasion by the Channel and so never had to experience political repression and pressure such that the Nazi's imposed on their own people, and the rest of Europe.

He was not the first President of the EU, he was the first President of the Commission of the European Economic Community. There is no overall president of the EU as such:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union

He was one of the founding fathers of the EU, along with Winston Chruchill and other European leaders and academics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_fathers_of_the_European_Union

You are using unsubstantiated information.

 

[websaway]

We, the people, will have a vote. We will elect politicians to make decisions for us, in the belief they have a fuller understanding, because it is their full time job and because they are, at least supposedly, better qualified. That is parliamentary democracy. We do not operate a system of referenda on everything, we do not live under mob rule.

Turkey may eventually join the EU, if it is in the interest of the EU. That's probably 20 years away, I'm not sure why you're so worried about it.

You repreatedly state that I am naïve, that I don't understand, that I am easily led. It is extremely patronising. I am an intelligent, accomplished adult. You would have far more impact by concentrating on the arguments over the insults.

So where each constituency sent a representative to the big smoke to take a seat and make decisions . We now send someone to represent us in parliament to select someone to go and represent us in Brussels.
Where unelected appointed presidents whip decisions. Seems the politics is becoming more absent from the electorate. and you say what I describe there is parliamentary democracy.

I think the fact no one will even admit to allowing Turkey to join until the year 3000 tends to speak for itself.

On your third point, I'm sorry I had not noticed you were intelligent.
( tongue in cheek ) Let's call it a day. Good luck with everything.

 

[websaway]

Edwins back everybody, the remains must be winning.

 

[Edwin]

Edwins back everybody, the remains must be winning.

Actually, I'm quite pessimistic. But what's done is (very nearly) done. Another 55 minutes and the polls will be closed, and then it's just the long wait until the results start trickling in in the early hours.

 

[Mark84]

Actually, I'm quite pessimistic. But what's done is (very nearly) done. Another 55 minutes and the polls will be closed, and then it's just the long wait until the results start trickling in in the early hours.

You know what mate, I reckon this isn't the referendum anyone should want to win. If the remain win, they will get the blame for the next few things that go wrong and so will the leave side if they win.

Ukip as s party will be ended if they win, lose and they win a good few seats in 2020.

I just don't honk this ends tonight either way I fear.

 

[gimpydog]

I just don't honk this ends tonight either way I fear.

Honk????

 

[Edwin]

BTW, this is why I'm pessimistic...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...-circus-stations_uk_576c0acce4b0a1f3f3317287?

Since all votes everywhere in the country count equally, tens or potentially hundreds of thousands of stranded commuters could tip the balance.

 

[gimpydog]

Lib-Dems are still campaigning & up to their old tricks...

You'd of thought they'd be keen to learn from previous mistakes & avoid any references to a "Pledge".

But Project Fear is alive & well I see....

https://voteremain.win/go/pledge-to-vote?

Is that desperation I smell?

 

[Edwin]

Honk????

There are all sorts of "pledges" on both sides. For example:
https://www.change.org/p/leave-eu-pledge-for-the-united-kingdom-to-leave-the-european-union

 

[websaway]

This always gives me back my balance.

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,
even to the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

 

[Edwin]

Would it be reasonable to have a "permanent cease fire" come into effect at 22:00 tonight?

By which I mean neither the "remain" nor "leave" parties on this thread attempt to "persuade" the other camp of their wrongness after the polls have closed.

Hope people will be receptive to the idea. There will be more than enough to digest overnight, tomorrow and in the days ahead no matter which side comes out on top without prolonging arguments unnecessarily; they will have quite literally no relevance any more since the die will have been cast.

 

[gimpydog]

There are all sorts of "pledges" on both sides.

None quite as toxic as.....

And what's with...

Nigel Farage's divisive and cynical leave campaign whose policies include economic weakness for Britain, scrapping our security, and closing access to Britain's biggest trade partners.

Pure bollox.

 

[Edwin]

For anyone gnawing their finger-nails waiting for the result, a bit of lighter relief... Ten ways to cope with referendum anxiety
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/23/ways-to-cope-with-eu-referendum-angst

 

[gimpydog]

Nearly there now.

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[Mark84]

Honk????

Dam autocorrect, haha

I'll not edit it otherwise people will won't understand this bit