EU Referendum

[websaway]

Repeatedly saying 'you don't think things through' and making personal insults does nothing for your case.
I can assure you I do think things through.

The IRA killed far more Brits than Islamic terrorists have. I was evacuated from school because of an IRA bomb. I don't remember us blaming the Irish people or stopping Irish immigration or closing the borders or withdrawing up our own backsides in fear

Don't you , you probably were not old enough to know.
Isis is a 50 year war.
Again you just don't think things through.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Repeatedly saying 'you don't think things through' and making personal insults does nothing for your case.
I can assure you I do think things through.

The IRA killed far more Brits than Islamic terrorists have. I was evacuated from school because of an IRA bomb. I don't remember us blaming the Irish people or stopping Irish immigration or closing the borders or withdrawing up our own backsides in fear

Exactly....now you're thinking.
When the IRA bombed Manchester, did we go and slaughter a million Irish? No. So why do out puppet leaders go straight to war now? Because that's their plan....look up PNAC.

 

[websaway]

Your response didn't seem to counter what I wrote about why the abusive relationship analogy doesn't work. That's why I'm asking you to elaborate. If you can.


?

Well if you asked an expert on a divorce and he was a divorce lawyer . Where do you think the advice would lead you.

 

[Bailey]

Don't you , you probably were not old enough to know.
Isis is a 50 year war.
Again you just don't think things through.

That was Pretty Much Extinguished as an effective (and supported) Fighting Force. Before.We led by the Americans Put Our Noses In.
Happy to direct you towards The Real Historic Position

 

[websaway]

I have. I've already said there's insufficient democracy for my liking (not a complete absence of democracy, mind you)

So how could you vote to remain in a less than totally democratic union.

 

[BREWSTERS]

No, it didn't.

Yes it did.

 

[bonusmedia]

Has anyone noticed how the remainers will not reply on the point that the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats . So it seems they don't believe in real democracy.

This is probably the strongest argument I've seen for leaving - there is not enough accountability in the EU and it desperately needs reform. It's just not enough to outweigh the considerable arguments against.

How would you define 'real democracy'? We elect people to run our affairs of state in the belief they are better at it than us, we don't have a plebiscite on every single issue because it's completely unrealistic to expect the public to make an informed choice on every decision

 

[bonusmedia]

Yes it did.

I've had more enlightening arguments with toddlers

 

[signature]

The fact that terrorism is rife all over Europe and we have no protection for our borders. Think on.

Terrorism is rife all over the world, very little in the EU, do you know how many times bomb get dropped on people outside the EU continent or how many suicide bombers happens outside the EU? You are just multiplying every situation in the EU by 10, the guys that carried out the killings are EU citizens, even if we are out of the EU, they can still come here without VISA and do whatever they want to do.

YOU ONLY STOP PEOPLE LIKE THIS WITH INTELLIGENTS, NOT BORDER CONTROL.

We do have control of our borders, non EU(with entry VISA) get checked before they enter this country and if what you meant is we cant stop EU citizen from entering the UK, you are right but that's not the same as we don't have control over our borders.

 

[Toonz]

Well if you asked an expert on a divorce and he was a divorce lawyer . Where do you think the advice would lead you.

But that's a ludicrous answer because (a) it implies that all or even most of the experts advising the abused to leave the relationship are motivated primarily by money rather than genuine concern for her/his wellbeing, when we know that they are not (Domestic violence charities? Shelters? Social workers? Mental health workers?) and (b) It sidesteps the allies/friends bit. So your analogy is deceptive and if you want to play fair you should really stop using it.

 

[websaway]

I've had more enlightening arguments with toddlers

And I'm sure you've had plenty of experience.

 

[bonusmedia]

Shall we get back to discussing the referendum?

 

[websaway]

But that's a ludicrous answer because (a) it implies that all or even most of the experts advising the abused to leave the relationship are motivated primarily by money rather than genuine concern for her/his wellbeing, when we know that they are not (Domestic violence charities? Shelters? Social workers? Mental health workers?) and (b) It sidesteps the allies/friends bit. So your analogy is deceptive and if you want to play fair you should really stop using it.

The analogy of an abusive marriage is that the abused is afraid to leave, often because of the fear of the unknown, and the threats of the consequences, it's similar to being institutionalised. Kind of better the devil you know. But the abuse continues.

 

[Toonz]

So how could you vote to remain in a less than totally democratic union.

Because I judge remaining to be the lesser of two evils. As it happens I think we're shafted either way - it's just that I think the person on the street is likely to be even more shafted by leaving. But I fully accept the point about insufficient accountability.

 

[Bailey]

Whatever the Outcome lets become 'reconcilers' The Day after Tomorrow Though some political Careers are definitely about to Cut-Short.

 

[websaway]

Shall we get back to discussing the referendum?

Have you ever.

 

[Toonz]

The analogy of an abusive marriage is that the abused is afraid to leave, often because of the fear of the unknown, and the threats of the consequences, it's similar to being institutionalised. Kind of better the devil you know. But the abuse continues.

Yes I get that bit. I just think that there are significant differences (those I outlined) as to make the analogy misleading, but I guess we'll have to disagree on that.

 

[websaway]

Because I judge remaining to be the lesser of two evils. As it happens I think we're shafted either way - it's just that I think the person on the street is likely to be even more shafted by leaving. But I fully accept the point about insufficient accountability.

My take on it is that there are some things you can change by biting the bullet , adjusting your sails and weathering the storms. There are other things that are just not acceptable to live with.

 

[bonusmedia]

Have you ever.

You have attacked me personally at least 20 times. You have called me an idiot, an imbecile, a fool. You refuse to acknowledge any point that contradicts your own. You switch the subject from sovereignty to immigration to terrorism to whatever rabid nonsense the mail has printed whenever you run out of steam. Forgive me if I get a little exasperated at times.

Whatever the Outcome lets become 'reconcilers' The Day after Tomorrow Though some political Careers are definitely about to Cut-Short - whatever the outcome

It's going to be difficult. The far right has reared its ugly head and it doesn't respond well to reconciliation

 

[websaway]

Yes I get that bit. I just think that there are significant differences (those I outlined) as to make the analogy misleading, but I guess we'll have to disagree on that.

"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." –Mark Twain

God Bless.