EU Referendum

[websaway]

Essential reading in todays telegraph.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-to-fail-on-thursday-we-can-protect-britai/

 

[BeachLife]

Essential reading in todays telegraph.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-to-fail-on-thursday-we-can-protect-britai/

Just rhetoric.

 

[spiderspider]

On a side note, I'm curious how a trade deal with American wouldn't include another variation of TTIP exclusively for us, which would basically be a search and replace EU for UK.

Does the EU have a trade deal with the USA? The TTIP is still in negotiation, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

There was a thingy on Radio other day, (think it was this one, if not part 1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07jl61s )

...that said EU has something like 54 trade negotiations. That may sound good, however these are for places like Norway, Iceland etc. See here and scroll to bottom:
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/agreements/index_en.htm#_europe

Anywhere else is still in negotiation. Given how the EU works, you can expect 'negotiations' to stretch on a bit. Maybe in our lifetimes..........

 

[AlistairM]

Watched DC on Question Time and he took on the same tactic as GO when interviewed by Andrew Neil. When pushed on the question of his "renegotiations" and whether it would actually happen because it could simply be overruled he started getting all loud and blustery and bringing Winston Churchill into the argument. In other words if you're losing the argument, diver divert divert.

 

[websaway]

Refreshing, don't read if you are very sensitive about the truth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-Jo-Cox-private-martyr-beneath-contempt.html

 

[websaway]

Watched DC on Question Time and he took on the same tactic as GO when interviewed by Andrew Neil. When pushed on the question of his "renegotiations" and whether it would actually happen because it could simply be overruled he started getting all loud and blustery and bringing Winston Churchill into the argument. In other words if you're losing the argument, diver divert divert.

Yes the PM used a mechanic as an example of an expert, the experts we are relying for his advice. So is he saying even experts will mislead you in their own interest.

an excerpt about mechanics from this is money .co.uk

Visiting a garage if your car needs to be repaired can be a baffling and costly experience, especially for those with limited motoring knowledge.
Even those who know their way around an engine can struggle as today's cars carry an ever expanding array of hi-tech electrical devices that require experts to put right.
It leaves drivers relying increasingly on professional mechanics to put their car right, and the imbalance of knowledge can lead them vulnerable to rip offs and sharp practice.



Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2718763/Five-essential-tips-visiting-garage-car-repairs.html#ixzz4C3gJAWu6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[websaway]

Larry Elliott is the economic editor of the Guardian, he has written five books on related issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...aving-eu-is-not-being-heard-referendum-brexit

 

[BREWSTERS]

3 minute video of the lies told to Norway before they rejected EU membership

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Sound familiar?

 

[denchomsky]

I don't think you will see any more remain posts on this thread. I think it's job done. Just seen a very pro remain city trading 'expert' on the BBC say that since the murder of Joe Cox the pound has done nothing but rise as public opinion has swung to remain as the murderer was a brexit supporter.

Her death was a disgusting act of violence but will have a significant influence on the vote. This is unfortunate or very fortunate depending on which way you look at it, but just goes to show that where, doom and gloom, stats and figures where not having an influence on the undecideds a human tragedy does. Her murder is totally irrelevant, I would say that most intelligent pro-remain supporters would agree, it has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. To be influenced by it is ridiculous as it's negative influence is one of association, it's like blaming all Muslims for ISIS.

 

[websaway]

The betting odds have not moved . But I think this saddest of sad events is manna from heaven for the remain campaign.

Odds are 3/1 to leave.
As predicted last Friday morning above it looks like this sad event has been used to swing it to remain.

326,000 British soldiers sacrificed their lives in world war two to defend our sovereignty, one life lost to surrender it now.

It has proved one thing, you will get people to follow far easier by appealing to their heart than threatening their resolve.

 

[websaway]

Had I have had the chance to talk to the PM last night, I would have asked.
Last year we took in 333,000 net migrants into the UK, a population the size of Newcastle. Where are we going to put the 333,000 that come in next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and where are we going to put the houses necessary to house an increase in population the size of Birmingham every 3 years. Will we be putting the people in your constituency ? will we be building the houses in your back yard ?

 

[websaway]

I've not had the time to follow this thread, but wanted to post this incase it hasn't already been shared, apologies if it has.

I've been on the fence with my vote, despite doing some research into both sides and following some of the debates, I was just left with the feeling that the numbers being quotes were false, and both campaigns were being run in a pretty negative way.

I found this talk really informative, and it cleared up a few misconceptions I had about the way the EU operates.

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Hope some others find it useful too.

Michael specialises in EU Law, particularly EU constitutional law, the Single Market and EU welfare law

Does anyone think that a person who makes his living on the back of the EU would want us to leave. I've said from outset it's about self interest.
Wonder what he would suggest we do with an increase in population the size of Birmingham every 3 years. Or is that just a by-product of him maintaining a good career.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Jo Cox murdered?

Anna Lindh - pro-Euro Swedish MP, 46, mother of two, 'murdered' days before Sweden's Euro vote by a lone nutter. Opinion swung heavily in favour of the 'in' side directly after the 'murder'. Coincidence theorists will lap it up.

Few things to consider;

Why was her sister ID'ing the body 36 hours after the event. Why not her husband and next of kin?
Why were her family all smiles when visiting the site? (Typical of supposed bereaved family after staged false flag events).
Why no apparent blood at the scene?
Patsy arrested straight away (police thought he was suspicious because of blood on his hat...a black hat...would it even show up?) Described by all as non-violent, has a mixed race half brother who says he doesn't have a racist bone in his body.
Her birthday is 22 Jun 16...day before the vote - can you imagine the amount of coverage there will be that day? Wouldn't surprise be if they book her funeral for then too.
The guy who owns the dry cleaning centre who the press credited with the story that Mair shouted 'Britain first' has fully denounced that and has even put a note on his shop window: “NO-ONE shouted Britain first at ANY TIME.”
Ultimately motive is a major factor in all investigations. The Anna Lindh 'murder' showed exactly how this event could swing opinion. Motive enough.

 

[websaway]

Jo Cox murdered?

Anna Lindh - pro-Euro Swedish MP, 46, mother of two, 'murdered' days before Sweden's Euro vote by a lone nutter. Opinion swung heavily in favour of the 'in' side directly after the 'murder'. Coincidence theorists will lap it up.

Few things to consider;

Why was her sister ID'ing the body 36 hours after the event. Why not her husband and next of kin?
Why were her family all smiles when visiting the site? (Typical of supposed bereaved family after staged false flag events).
Why no apparent blood at the scene?
Patsy arrested straight away (police thought he was suspicious because of blood on his hat...a black hat...would it even show up?) Described by all as non-violent, has a mixed race half brother who says he doesn't have a racist bone in his body.
Her birthday is 22 Jun 16...day before the vote - can you imagine the amount of coverage there will be that day? Wouldn't surprise be if they book her funeral for then too.
The guy who owns the dry cleaning centre who the press credited with the story that Mair shouted 'Britain first' has fully denounced that and has even put a note on his shop window: “NO-ONE shouted Britain first at ANY TIME.”
Ultimately motive is a major factor in all investigations. The Anna Lindh 'murder' showed exactly how this event could swing opinion. Motive enough.

If I was you I would have quit after the first sentence, it's noteworthy. The rest is midsomer murder stuff. I wouldn't bother .

 

[websaway]

Of course, everyone making their opinion known will have self interest, that's pretty obvious.



The British economy has started to grow again makes it an attractive people for to come, a large percentage of those people will be coming here to work. There's no guarantee that leaving the EU would make any difference to the levels of immigration.

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I agree there is no guarantee on immigration but at least it would be in our hands. The PM said he wanted it down to 100,000 . Don't forget that's year on year so still not insignificant. If it was at that level then we could also look at one offs humanitarian immigration. 333,000 per year and rising, ad infinitum, is verging on lunacy. We need to educate our young, not leave them with student loans that will take their lifetimes to clear. ( notice how the universities are flourishing within the EU while poor students are borrowing money to get educated ) Encourage our young that have never been employed to learn skills. Pay decent wages with decent conditions for unskilled workers home grown.

 

[websaway]

From memory.
Gordon Brown after his end to boom and bust hit the rocks, presided over the biggest financial collapse since the great depression.
In 2010 the liberal party surrendered it's principles to form a coalition government with the tories to try and escape from the precipice of disaster that we found ourselves balancing above. Austerity was the answer, accompanied by low interest rates. Austerity hit the poor, low interest rates helped the rich. The divide between rich and poor grew larger and faster than at any time in recent history. We now have a divided country , rich and poor. And the rich are deserting the poor in a way that is nothing less than treacherous . Immigration helps the rich and it ads to the suffering of the poor, less access to hospitals and healthcare, less access to homes, less access to well paid jobs as the minimum wage becomes the maximum wage. Jeremy Corbyn once the champion of the poor said he has no issues with mass uncontrolled immigration and others such as Neil Kinnock who vilified Margaret Thatcher for encouraging modern capitalism and now sits in his robes in the Lords with his big fat unelected EU pension. Any mention from him of the effects immigration has on the poor, not a hope.

 

[websaway]

Well, that would all depend on the deal negotiated with the EU, it would take years & years to iron out the details, I don't think it's going to change anytime soon, regardless of which way the referendum goes.



I think the austerity measures are what have put a strain on the NHS and services, not immigration, it's too easy to blame immigration for all of the problems.

I think your answers are just convenient for your argument.
What kind of a country are we building, don't forget, if we don't like it in 4 years we can't alter it by changing government.
I will ask one more time , how do we accommodate an increase in population the size of Birmingham every 3 years, ad infinitum.
This is not the past, not the blame game. How are we going to house them, where are we going to put them?
Answer that and you've won me over.

 

[BREWSTERS]

If I was you I would have quit after the first sentence, it's noteworthy. The rest is midsomer murder stuff. I wouldn't bother .

You're not alone, unfortunately most people don't bother.

That's why scams work.

 

[AssetDomains]

I don't think you will see any more remain posts on this thread. I think it's job done. Just seen a very pro remain city trading 'expert' on the BBC say that since the murder of Joe Cox the pound has done nothing but rise as public opinion has swung to remain as the murderer was a brexit supporter.

Her death was a disgusting act of violence but will have a significant influence on the vote. This is unfortunate or very fortunate depending on which way you look at it, but just goes to show that where, doom and gloom, stats and figures where not having an influence on the undecideds a human tragedy does. Her murder is totally irrelevant, I would say that most intelligent pro-remain supporters would agree, it has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. To be influenced by it is ridiculous as it's negative influence is one of association, it's like blaming all Muslims for ISIS.

I've always been swaying heavily towards remain I did wonder should the vote have been put back a month to let everything calm down to honest. Probably best not to drag it out to much longer if the campaigning is going to stay as nasty or we could get more tragic incidents

 

[websaway]

You're not alone, unfortunately most people don't bother.

That's why scams work.

Both sides have enough trouble arguing significant facts without arguing immaterial supposition.