EU Referendum

[websaway]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...exit-doesn-t-necessarily-mean-a-u-k-recession

 

[martin-s]

Can we shut this thread please - it's just getting offensive now.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Yes, but you have to draw a line somewhere.

Sorry what do you mean? That there's a only a limited amount of evil?

Going back to my teens, 30 years ago, every now and then some event would happen and I'd know that there was something wrong about the official story. Just a hunch. Then maybe 15 years ago I started looking into these events (thanks to the Internet).
I found things out but didn't commit to them because the overriding feeling was that people wouldn't be so bad, and we'd know about it through the media if they were true. Then last year I was watching an event unfold and it all started to make sense. I could see through the bullcrap.
With these events they often make glaring mistakes. The Jo Cox one is the sister ID'ing the body 48 hours after the event - that's bollox.
The smiling relatives is another give away. Eyes aren't red from crying....full of smiles....doesn't happen in reality.

I guess no one will consider what I say and discount me as a nut - I would've done a couple of years ago too - but I need to say what I see. One day you might have been through the same process and see things the same. It's hard to accept individual events though until all the dots connect, then it all falls into place.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Can we shut this thread please - it's just getting offensive now.

YouTube 'Steve Hughes offended'

It's very funny.

 

[willbon]

Sorry if it's been posted before... but kind of sums it up for me right now!

 

[websaway]

Sorry what do you mean? That there's a only a limited amount of evil?

Going back to my teens, 30 years ago, every now and then some event would happen and I'd know that there was something wrong about the official story. Just a hunch. Then maybe 15 years ago I started looking into these events (thanks to the Internet).
I found things out but didn't commit to them because the overriding feeling was that people wouldn't be so bad, and we'd know about it through the media if they were true. Then last year I was watching an event unfold and it all started to make sense. I could see through the bullcrap.
With these events they often make glaring mistakes. The Jo Cox one is the sister ID'ing the body 48 hours after the event - that's bollox.
The smiling relatives is another give away. Eyes aren't red from crying....full of smiles....doesn't happen in reality.

I guess no one will consider what I say and discount me as a nut - I would've done a couple of years ago too - but I need to say what I see. One day you might have been through the same process and see things the same. It's hard to accept individual events though until all the dots connect, then it all falls into place.

yes, great well open a thread to discuss it.

 

[dougs]

He can't do it, I was listening to the interview and it was embarrassing.
We certainly won't get immigration down to the 10's of thousands. But we can look at what is the maximum amount of immigration we can cope with and then implement policies to address the situation. We need immigrants, but we need to know how many and who they are and where they come from and why they are here. Your one world is a great ambition, but it's living in dreamland. We don't live in a world where people reason with each other, there will always be bandits and rebels who's ambitions thrive on laughing at civil society. It would be so expensive to police an open world that it just isn't possible. The world is different, warfare is different, and I believe if you can, you look to seek self determination, and if you want to create peace and harmony it should start at home before trying to export to the world what you have not even achieved ourselves.

The world was once small little tribes, then the tribes became clams and then countries....what next.

Advancement does not happen by having little goals but audacious dreams

 

[dougs]

Sorry but without a sound mental evaluation, I'm not sure anyone can judge his motivations.



I wasn't aware the picture was fake!if that is what you are claiming, looks dam real to me.

The trouble with your stance is that you and people like you told us that Farage was dangerous when he said how many Poles would come, then only a few years ago you dismissed him when he said how many Romanian's would come.

Then it turns out he was right right and right and others were continuously wrong.

There was no increase in Romanians:

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox....garians-coming-uk-2014-influx-or-exaggeration

 

[dougs]

Let me try and hit the nail on the head. It is not about those that have come. IT's ABOUT THOSE THAT ARE TO COME. if you can tell me how many, and of course you can't, and how we are to accommodate them, ( a city the size of Birmingham, every three of four years ) then I am intelligent enough to balance it , but neither you nor anyone else is prepared to say.
If people came to live in your mansion and told you it was OK because there was a nil cost to you when you look at what they eat and how much they contribute, you might say, well how many are coming, who are they, and eventually your mansion will not sensibly be able to accommodate any more.

Agreed we should know and have plans, but only half come from the EU...hence their are 2 issues you are talking about:

EU immigration - this has always ebbed and flowed between countries that are doing well and the others...hence in the 80's the Brits went to work in Germany...hence the poles initially came to the UK, but many are going home.

None EU immigration - aslong as we help to create wars then this will happen, but once again it ebbs and flows. Even if we did not create a war, drought, etc it is the right thing to do as humans and to help humanity. Maybe stopping the reasons why people uproot their families and lives etc to move is the thing we should focus on, rather than whinging about a problem happening with immigration, when we created the reason.

 

[Mark84]

There was no increase in Romanians:

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox....garians-coming-uk-2014-influx-or-exaggeration

That's just naive Doug, for a start how does that 2014 report take into account the admission of dodgy accounting of figures regarding NI numbers that the Home Office has now admitted to in May 2016?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271390

(with the reviews figures)

Quote BBC: The number of National Insurance numbers issued to Bulgarians and Romanians has jumped from below 50,000 to more than 200,000 since work restrictions on people from those countries were lifted in 2014.​

Don't worry though, when we all get our EU Tax Numbers, we won't be able to catch anyone out on these dodgy figures.

 

[websaway]

Agreed we should know and have plans, but only half come from the EU...hence their are 2 issues you are talking about:

EU immigration - this has always ebbed and flowed between countries that are doing well and the others...hence in the 80's the Brits went to work in Germany...hence the poles initially came to the UK, but many are going home.

None EU immigration - aslong as we help to create wars then this will happen, but once again it ebbs and flows. Even if we did not create a war, drought, etc it is the right thing to do as humans and to help humanity. Maybe stopping the reasons why people uproot their families and lives etc to move is the thing we should focus on, rather than whinging about a problem happening with immigration, when we created the reason.

Well then we would decide this ourselves in our own parliament who we took for humanitarian reasons and who for economic reasons, it's not rocket science, but it would be controlled.

 

[websaway]

The world was once small little tribes, then the tribes became clams and then countries....what next.

Advancement does not happen by having little goals but audacious dreams

Yes, you mean like bush and blair, no, pie in the sky doug. Get our own house in order and then and only then we can look at non military humanitarian help. You can't plan if you don't know what the cap is.

 

[websaway]

Great article in the telegraph below.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...leave-to-create-a-britain-fit-for-the-future/

 

[dougs]

That's just naive Doug, for a start how does that 2014 report take into account the admission of dodgy accounting of figures regarding NI numbers that the Home Office has now admitted to in May 2016?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271390

(with the reviews figures)

Quote BBC: The number of National Insurance numbers issued to Bulgarians and Romanians has jumped from below 50,000 to more than 200,000 since work restrictions on people from those countries were lifted in 2014.​

Don't worry though, when we all get our EU Tax Numbers, we won't be able to catch anyone out on these dodgy figures.

Good point out but the article also says:

The ONS said it did not have enough data to understand whether this was being driven by short-term migration and some of the increase might be accounted for Bulgarian and Romanian citizens already in the UK applying for NI numbers, and some people might change their mind about how long they planned to stay.

 

[Mark84]

Good point out but the article also says:

The ONS said it did not have enough data to understand whether this was being driven by short-term migration and some of the increase might be accounted for Bulgarian and Romanian citizens already in the UK applying for NI numbers, and some people might change their mind about how long they planned to stay.

Yep that is true Doug, unfortunately I have the view of most Government of looking at the worst case scenario rather than them telling the truth which isn't our fault.

To be honest, I fear the numbers that the BBC quote, I think they are way off because in truth we don't count anyone in or out and "who knows" is probably the honest answer.

What happens when people don't know, or don't trust what they are given, is that they tend to make things up. I only fear what someone can do with that lack of trust one day, I'm talking way further down the danger line than anything anyone can imagine UKIP are capable of.

 

[dougs]

Yes, you mean like bush and blair, no, pie in the sky doug. Get our own house in order and then and only then we can look at non military humanitarian help. You can't plan if you don't know what the cap is.

Big Hairy Audacious Goals is how you deliver change...not fixing the plumbing Fixing the plumbing is obvious when you know the goal. I believe the idea of the EU was and is a BHAG

 

[BREWSTERS]

So

Big Hairy Audacious Goals is how you deliver change...not fixing the plumbing Fixing the plumbing is obvious when you know the goal. I believe the idea of the EU was and is a BHAG

So was WW11 - oh sorry, same goal, but through stealth not force.

Why the rush for change? Most western governments are technically bankrupt - is that a good change? Ask any Palestinian if change is working for them. Reforming the banking system, now that would be worthwhile change. For the masses, not the leaders.
But people aren't interested while they can get cheap credit, and the Euro's are on, or Downton.

 

[websaway]

Interesting listening to Jeremy Corbyn this morning . Who when told that people were angry about uncontrolled immigration.

He said that.
" They should turn their anger on this current Government "

Probably not the most choice words under the current circumstance.

 

[websaway]

Jeremy Corbyn said today that he does not want to cap immigration and while you have economic disaster like in Greece, we can expect more migration from the EU. So not much hope for the good people of England on concerns about immigration if the Leader of the opposition has any say in it. We will need to provide for even more than the previously estimated 300 to 400,000 people per year or a city the size of Newcastle every year. Still haven't heard from any remainers in the media where we are going to put them. 300,000 people putting strain on the system , schools, hospitals, jobs , and surely most of all housing, where, if it were possible, and it's not , are we going to build the houses, who's backyard. Already urban spread has ruined most city views of our green and pleasant land. Inner city people have to travel further out to even see green belt. This is not Jeremy Corbyns land to give away, this is not a case of , oh well part of staying in the EU is that we will swell our population by a city the size of Birmingham every 3 or 4 years, or even more because it will be more , the more we accommodate the more will come, naturally.

 

[AssetDomains]

Jeremy Corbyn said today that he does not want to cap immigration and while you have economic disaster like in Greece, we can expect more migration from the EU. So not much hope for the good people of England on concerns about immigration if the Leader of the opposition has any say in it. We will need to provide for even more than the previously estimated 300 to 400,000 people per year or a city the size of Newcastle every year. Still haven't heard from any remainers in the media where we are going to put them. 300,000 people putting strain on the system , schools, hospitals, jobs , and surely most of all housing, where, if it were possible, and it's not , are we going to build the houses, who's backyard. Already urban spread has ruined most city views of our green and pleasant land. Inner city people have to travel further out to even see green belt. This is not Jeremy Corbyns land to give away, this is not a case of , oh well part of staying in the EU is that we will swell our population by a city the size of Birmingham every 3 or 4 years, or even more because it will be more , the more we accommodate the more will come, naturally.

They don't have an answer. Just like how leave don't have an answer to if we leave is it going to tank the economy, Can we get a favourable trade deal with Europe that doesn't include free movement of people, how long will it take to negotiate. Will it break up Great Britain, what happens to all the migrants who live hear already. How many migrants is a good number. How will destabilising Europe effect cooperation on counter terrorism, crime, climate change, science.