EU Referendum

[dougs]

You hedged your bets a bit with this statement .
"I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave."

I don't think you are right regarding EU whites, they are taking jobs and accommodation and driving wages down ( the minimum wage has become the maximum wage ) If men lives 3 to a room and share a car, a man with a family a mortgage and children can't compete when quoting a wage for his services.

By leaving we gain control over the government, and it's policy on immigration, we take control of our immigration policy, then it's up to us.

Most people unlike you don't adapt well to change, that's probably why the remain could win.

As far as setting your childhood house on fire, I'll not comment.

Minimum wage has increased over the past few years:
https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Agree that many people living in a house compared to family is different, but we have almost zero unemployment ( 5% which is efffectively zero ) so there is work and there is a min wage. The issue is that each party needs a different amount to live on, but as time progress's these 3 men get families....this issue has been going on since the war with each wave of new immigrants.

By leaving we don't gain control of immigration, we just think we will. If we leave we have to conform to some trade agreement with the EU like Norway and the EU has a position that anyone who trades properly with the EU muts pay to be allowed to play and must allow freedom of movement. We can create our own trade rules and stop freedom of movement, but that is a very hard road to recreate and will take years and be an economic nightmare.

I think it is illogical for most people to leave due to the 5-10 year economic turmoil that will be created, people also believe that a few months after we leave the sun will shine more, when it does not they will be more annoyed and think they have been sold a dead puppy. Thus creating more mayhem that the masses of people will blame on others.

The only argument I find makes sense is to accept the UK will be in turmoil for 5-10 years, but it will be our turmoil and we will accept the blame. If we were planning for turmoil and embrace it to create a new Europe, then I would be very pro LEAVE, but no one is saying that....there is not even any idea of which plan would be executed.

I am actually quite excited as I was when I used to be when I set fires in our house

 

[websaway]

Eu only accounts for 50% of immigrants though
43K of immigrants are family members from in and outside the EU.....so how does Farage get his target of 40K immigrants pa

He can't do it, I was listening to the interview and it was embarrassing.
We certainly won't get immigration down to the 10's of thousands. But we can look at what is the maximum amount of immigration we can cope with and then implement policies to address the situation. We need immigrants, but we need to know how many and who they are and where they come from and why they are here. Your one world is a great ambition, but it's living in dreamland. We don't live in a world where people reason with each other, there will always be bandits and rebels who's ambitions thrive on laughing at civil society. It would be so expensive to police an open world that it just isn't possible. The world is different, warfare is different, and I believe if you can, you look to seek self determination, and if you want to create peace and harmony it should start at home before trying to export to the world what you have not even achieved ourselves.

 

[Mark84]

Switzerland declare's only "a few lunatics" would vote to join and withdraws it's application to the EU.

www.liveleak.com/view?i=4dd_1466262628

 

[websaway]

Minimum wage has increased over the past few years:
https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Agree that many people living in a house compared to family is different, but we have almost zero unemployment ( 5% which is efffectively zero ) so there is work and there is a min wage. The issue is that each party needs a different amount to live on, but as time progress's these 3 men get families....this issue has been going on since the war with each wave of new immigrants.

By leaving we don't gain control of immigration, we just think we will. If we leave we have to conform to some trade agreement with the EU like Norway and the EU has a position that anyone who trades properly with the EU muts pay to be allowed to play and must allow freedom of movement. We can create our own trade rules and stop freedom of movement, but that is a very hard road to recreate and will take years and be an economic nightmare.

I think it is illogical for most people to leave due to the 5-10 year economic turmoil that will be created, people also believe that a few months after we leave the sun will shine more, when it does not they will be more annoyed and think they have been sold a dead puppy. Thus creating more mayhem that the masses of people will blame on others.

The only argument I find makes sense is to accept the UK will be in turmoil for 5-10 years, but it will be our turmoil and we will accept the blame. If we were planning for turmoil and embrace it to create a new Europe, then I would be very pro LEAVE, but no one is saying that....there is not even any idea of which plan would be executed.

I am actually quite excited as I was when I sued to set fires in our house

In time these three men get families and then 3 replace them so the problem exists indefinitely. That's precisely the nub of the problem.
If what you say happened , as would be the case with asylum seekers, then you can absorb it into the system.
In my scenario though every time you cope with 300,000 another 300,000 follow on ad infinitum.

I don't share your view about turmoil on a Brexit.

 

[dougs]

Not once have I heard anybody explain how we are going to cope with mass uncontrolled immigration, not once.
Ask a left wing politician how we are going to accommodate an increase in immigration the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years and without exception the response is that, we have x amount of foreign nationals working in the health service, or, you are more likely to be treated by an immigrant than be in bed next to one in a hospital, or if all else fails, that is a far right or racist thing to say and that is what is causing a divisive society.
Why can't they simply engage seriously with the question.

This is a valid point and I honestly do not know, but leaving the EU does not fix it......

180K of immigrants pa come from the EU and they economically are a benefit...so this is not a money issue...they easily pay into society financially and I would also add that they are good for society as they bring diversity etc and integrate quickly.

The other 180K pa come from else where in the world and that is not decided by the EU but by the UK government....these contribute less financially to the economy. These I would say is what people are generally concerned about....but again this is not an EU issue.

The issue I feel has been compounded as many people have suffered under the cost cutting measures since 2008 and people are looking for someone to blame and that has become the influx of immigrants, rather than maybe the banking and large corporate machines...that will not change IN or OUT

 

[Mark84]

Just for anyone doubting his motivations http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

Sorry but without a sound mental evaluation, I'm not sure anyone can judge his motivations.

Hate just breads more hate hope the IMPORTANT topic of immigration can be debated sensibly over the final week instead of resorting to crap like this

I wasn't aware the picture was fake!if that is what you are claiming, looks dam real to me.

The trouble with your stance is that you and people like you told us that Farage was dangerous when he said how many Poles would come, then only a few years ago you dismissed him when he said how many Romanian's would come.

Then it turns out he was right right and right and others were continuously wrong.

 

[Mark84]

rather than maybe the banking and large corporate machines...that will not change IN or OUT

Maybe Doug the bankers are setting the migrants to take the blame? Keep throwing people in until something snaps. I hope that people don't blame migrants but unfortunately when resources get few, they will ultimately turn on them. That's human nature and maybe we are being played by higher powers? We can have sustainable immigration with Brexit or a breaking point were people get hurt with remain.

 

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[denchomsky]

I love this game It is a shame about the insults on all sides, but please if you want to throw them at me be aware of my background so you make the assumptions correctly and get the insults correct

I came from a poor part of the country and went to an awful school
I left school at 16
I went back and studied and did a degree
I setup loads of companies for fun
I lived in numerous countries and hold 2 passports

So many things I can be called but not be able to have various views is not one of them as I have lived the world in many people's shoes...it has been fun.

If I just had been coloured and religious....I could be a rainbow

If we do leave I do have one big big hope that none of the clowns currently fronting the IN or LEAVE campaign has any power as that would be simple madness....if we thought many of them were incompetent and nasty people before this vote they have made it more obvious.

The mayor of Reykjavik after the meltdown was a comedian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/jon-gnarr-comedian-mayor-iceland

I hope you didn't think I was trying to insult you? I was just giving my opinion on your cocksure opinions, your replies to mine were...well.......disappointingly sarcastic.

Your background, education, wealth and lifestyle has no relevance, I would not , unlike you, use them to 'presume' how you would vote.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I don't think the BBC are being biased
Thomas Mair just gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

And you found that out from where? I heard it too....on the BBC.
The authorities have had him for 36 hours now. Time aplenty for coercion /MK Ultra/Tavistock intervention. He's a vulnerable adult with a back-story of mental issues. Sound like Barry George?
A distinct lack of mobile phone footage makes me question the events, and then there are coincidences with Swedish foreign minister Anna Lindh's murder - 2 days before their EU vote (46, she left behind 2 kids).
Did you notice the only political leaders that have been on tv laying flowers and offering their condolences were Cameron and Corbyn?

 

[Mark84]

The authorities have had him for 36 hours now. Time aplenty for coercion /MK Ultra/Tavistock intervention. He's a vulnerable adult with a back-story of mental issues. Sound like Barry George?

I'm not 100% sold on the thing but why would an English national not be watching the football that was about to start an hour later? Doesn't sound like an English nationalist to me.

Anyway, if you want to remain, make sure you get out and vote next Friday the 24th - it's important

 

[BREWSTERS]

Ok, I'm calling bs on this.

I've just seen the family of Jo Cox on TV. Why were they only there today, a day after the 'C&C remain factory'.

Her sister said she went today to identify the body....wtf?!?! That is her husbands job.

Why was her sister all smiles?
Why were her parents all smiles?

Anyone who's lost anyone close, knows it takes a while before you stop crying....let alone can smile again. If that person had been murdered I'm sure it takes a lot lot longer.

Crisis acting.

 

[Mark84]

Ok, I'm calling bs on this.

I've just seen the family of Jo Cox on TV. Why were they only there today, a day after the 'C&C remain factory'.

Her sister said she went today to identify the body....wtf?!?! That is her husbands job.

Why was her sister all smiles?
Why were her parents all smiles?

Anyone who's lost anyone close, knows it takes a while before you stop crying....let alone can smile again. If that person had been murdered I'm sure it takes a lot lot longer.

Crisis acting.

I'm firmly brexit mate, and it might be a real stretch to say that sections (3 or 4 people tops, MI6 are dark puppies) of the establishment were behind it, but to suggest the family were in on it is far fetched.

 

[websaway]

This is a valid point and I honestly do not know, but leaving the EU does not fix it......

180K of immigrants pa come from the EU and they economically are a benefit...so this is not a money issue...they easily pay into society financially and I would also add that they are good for society as they bring diversity etc and integrate quickly.

The other 180K pa come from else where in the world and that is not decided by the EU but by the UK government....these contribute less financially to the economy. These I would say is what people are generally concerned about....but again this is not an EU issue.

The issue I feel has been compounded as many people have suffered under the cost cutting measures since 2008 and people are looking for someone to blame and that has become the influx of immigrants, rather than maybe the banking and large corporate machines...that will not change IN or OUT

Let me try and hit the nail on the head. It is not about those that have come. IT's ABOUT THOSE THAT ARE TO COME. if you can tell me how many, and of course you can't, and how we are to accommodate them, ( a city the size of Birmingham, every three of four years ) then I am intelligent enough to balance it , but neither you nor anyone else is prepared to say.
If people came to live in your mansion and told you it was OK because there was a nil cost to you when you look at what they eat and how much they contribute, you might say, well how many are coming, who are they, and eventually your mansion will not sensibly be able to accommodate any more.

 

[websaway]

Ok, I'm calling bs on this.

I've just seen the family of Jo Cox on TV. Why were they only there today, a day after the 'C&C remain factory'.

Her sister said she went today to identify the body....wtf?!?! That is her husbands job.

Why was her sister all smiles?
Why were her parents all smiles?

Anyone who's lost anyone close, knows it takes a while before you stop crying....let alone can smile again. If that person had been murdered I'm sure it takes a lot lot longer.

Crisis acting.

Would I be wide of the mark if I said you are just a tad conspiracy theorist.

 

[websaway]

I'm not 100% sold on the thing but why would an English national not be watching the football that was about to start an hour later? Doesn't sound like an English nationalist to me.

Anyway, if you want to remain, make sure you get out and vote next Friday the 24th - it's important

Took a minute.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I'm saying there was no murder. This has just displayed some of the obvious hallmarks of a false flag event.

It's difficult to get your head around the evil that is perpetrated by the real ruling class. The dots connect when you see the overall picture. Then the world as we are shown it begins to make sense (from a warped psycophatic viewpoint).
To paraphrase Henry Kissinger "military men are stupid individuals to be used to further foreign policy". He won a Nobel Peace prize. As did the war criminal Blair. As did Obama; the US president who holds the record of the most number of days for being at war. And, the US president who signed off on the highest amount of arms deals. The world is not as it is presented to us by the media.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Would I be wide of the mark if I said you are just a tad conspiracy theorist.

The term 'conspiracy theorist' was introduced by the CIA after the JFK assassination to discredit anyone who question authority's official story. Now it's used by two sets of people;
Officialdom, to avoid answering questions.
People who are happy thinking that officialdom always tell the truth.

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. And don't believe me - find out for yourselves. Don't trust any news source, especially mainstream news.

Ask anyone involved with law - what is the most important thing to find out about any crime; the motive. The bigger the crime/lie, the bigger the motive needs to be. If you're willing to send millions of people to their deaths, as our current leaders are, let's face it, excited to do (witness cheering when voting to bomb Syria) then the motive must be pretty big.

BTW Websaway, I don't mind being called it, or anything else...it isn't important.

 

[websaway]

I'm saying there was no murder. This has just displayed some of the obvious hallmarks of a false flag event.

It's difficult to get your head around the evil that is perpetrated by the real ruling class. The dots connect when you see the overall picture. Then the world as we are shown it begins to make sense (from a warped psycophatic viewpoint).
To paraphrase Henry Kissinger "military men are stupid individuals to be used to further foreign policy". That twat won a Nobel Peace prize. As did the war criminal Blair. As did Obama; the US president who holds the record of the most number of days for being at war. And, the US president who signed off on the highest amount of arms deals. The world is not as it is presented to us by the media.

Yes, but you have to draw a line somewhere.

 

[websaway]

The term 'conspiracy theorist' was introduced by the CIA after the JFK assassination to discredit anyone who question authority's official story. Now it's used by two sets of people;
Officialdom, to avoid answering questions.
People who are happy thinking that officialdom always tell the truth.

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. And don't believe me - find out for yourselves. Don't trust any news source, especially mainstream news.

Ask anyone involved with law - what is the most important thing to find out about any crime; the motive. The bigger the crime/lie, the bigger the motive needs to be. If you're willing to send millions of people to their deaths, as our current leaders are, let's face it, excited to do (witness cheering when voting to bomb Syria) then the motive must be pretty big.

BTW Websaway, I don't mind being called it, or anything else...it isn't important.

Perhaps you could open a new thread, it's not really for this thread.