EU Referendum

[Edwin]

Perhaps the lizardmen who built the pyramids and faked the moon landing could be discussed in their own thread? This is in "The Bar" after all.

That way, this thread has at least a tiny chance of veering back on topic!

 

[bonusmedia]

It would be more entertaining than Websaway's repeated insistence that Nigel Farage is on to something

 

[websaway]

Don't expect some to appreciate this observation, but like it or not an enormous amount of people ( I avoided saying the majority ) are annoyed about uncontrolled immigration. Over the years most people, and we have to appreciate that not everyone can voice their opinions in an eloquent manner, and the race card brigade are quick to jump on people who try to explain that they are not content with hoards of people swamping their towns and cities, by labelling them racist.
The result is they have been ignored by the very politicians that they put in office to help them.

 

[Edwin]

A lot of interesting new stuff in this article...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Bear in mind that, in theory at least, George Osborne had all the power he needs to put forward that revised budget. There's nothing Vote Leave can do to stop him. And once it's published it's official Tory policy, even though most of it would almost certainly never get enacted because backbench rebels would combine with opposition MPs to vote stuff down. (Some stuff is under the Chancellor's remit and doesn't need approval.)

In other words the Remain Tories would rather blow their credibility with the electorate by breaking their manifesto promises, rather than lose the EU. More selfless than I expected, and just goes to show just how insanely high the stakes are!

Notice too that Vote Leave want to punt the actual "leaving" of the EU out to beyond 2020 ie they're so unconfident of being able to deliver a good deal, they want to run out the clock on this full Parliament first...

 

[websaway]

Perhaps the lizardmen who built the pyramids and faked the moon landing could be discussed in their own thread? This is in "The Bar" after all.

That way, this thread has at least a tiny chance of veering back on topic!

I would still love to hear your take on Sovereignty, you still haven't graced us with your opinion. Or are you one of those that say it's the price we pay for remaining in the EU ?

 

[bonusmedia]

hoards of people swamping their towns and cities

That bit, right there, is racist. If you're not sure why get someone to explain it to you

 

[websaway]

A lot of interesting new stuff in this article...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Bear in mind that, in theory at least, George Osborne had all the power he needs to put forward that revised budget. There's nothing Vote Leave can do to stop him. And once it's published it's official Tory policy, even though most of it would almost certainly never get enacted because backbench rebels would combine with opposition MPs to vote stuff down. (Some stuff is under the Chancellor's remit and doesn't need approval.)

In other words the Remain Tories would rather blow their credibility with the electorate by breaking their manifesto promises, rather than lose the EU. More selfless than I expected, and just goes to show just how insanely high the stakes are!

Notice too that Vote Leave want to punt the actual "leaving" of the EU out to beyond 2020 ie they're so unconfident of being able to deliver a good deal, they want to run out the clock on this full Parliament first...

Em perhaps a new chancellor who can do the job he's paid to do. Without talking us into recession.

 

[bonusmedia]

A lot of interesting new stuff in this article...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Bear in mind that, in theory at least, George Osborne had all the power he needs to put forward that revised budget. There's nothing Vote Leave can do to stop him. And once it's published it's official Tory policy, even though most of it would almost certainly never get enacted because backbench rebels would combine with opposition MPs to vote stuff down. (Some stuff is under the Chancellor's remit and doesn't need approval.)

In other words the Remain Tories would rather blow their credibility with the electorate by breaking their manifesto promises, rather than lose the EU. More selfless than I expected, and just goes to show just how insanely high the stakes are!

Notice too that Vote Leave want to punt the actual "leaving" of the EU out to beyond 2020 ie they're so unconfident of being able to deliver a good deal, they want to run out the clock on this full Parliament first...

Do have to give him some credit for this, but saying 'I told you so' isn't going to help the country much.

 

[BREWSTERS]

You haven't stated any facts whatosever, you've said trade, immigration and money are 'smokescreens' and made a vague demand that others should 'look into' some names. You've also suggested that you know something the rest of us don't because we haven't looked it up on the internet like you have, and that we are all idiots beholden to the 'controlled media'. All the hallmarks of a conspiracy theorist - and for that reason I've discounted what you've said. For example, do you believe 9/11 was an inside job?

I saw David Shayler speak once before he lost the plot and proclaimed himself to be Jesus. He was an idiot.

Then again perhaps you've hit on something really important and we've all missed it - so why not explain your theory? Please cite your sources.

You're guards up because you don't want to be proven wrong, so you will fight whatever I say.
For now, all I will say is that Hallstein, the first President of the EU, was a legal representative for the Nazis before and throughout WW2. Fact. Check it out anywhere.
Prescott Bush was a main source of financing the Nazi party.
Operation Paperclip brought many leading Nazis from Germany to America before the end of the war fact. Werner Von Braun (?...I'm crap with names!) was one of them and became head of NASA.
These are all facts - I wish they werent. Disprove them if you can...I couldnt.

9/11? Haha. I bet you believe Orlando was a Muslim extremist too eh?

 

[Edwin]

Em perhaps a new chancellor who can do the job he's paid to do. Without talking us into recession.

By tapping the magic money tree? You could put the smartest person in the world in charge of the economy, and they still won't be able to spend money that doesn't exist!

Did you not listen to the Today segment from this morning? Vote Leave's figures have been comprehensively debunked.

 

[bonusmedia]

off topic - withdrawn

 

[Edwin]

What would Brexit mean for the NHS, social care and disabled people?
https://www.theguardian.com/society...lth-social-care-disabled-people-eu-referendum

 

[Edwin]

A question for the Leave camp:

What if the more pessimistic predictions turn out to be right? Would you change your feelings about wanting to leave the EU if the economy craters within days or weeks of the 23 June vote being tallied, and the headlines fill with companies laying off staff?

Or would you want the Tories to press on with the brexit process to the bitter end, regardless?

 

[AlistairM]

That article to me reads like Osborne is now going to be basically threatening people to vote remain. Hopefully it will backfire like all the other crap they've pulled.

 

[AlistairM]

Or would you want the Tories to press on with the brexit process to the bitter end, regardless?

On the other hand, what would make you vote leave, or consider voting leave?

 

[Edwin]

That article to me reads like Osborne is now going to be basically threatening people to vote remain. Hopefully it will backfire like all the other crap they've pulled.

Is it merely a threat if he's actually in a position to carry it out?

Actually, I think the Remain camp want to get a very loud, very clear, completely unequivocal "we told you what would happen, but you didn't listen" on record so that if the economy does end up collapsing it will be the Vote Leave ringleaders and their magic money tree at the front of the "blame" queue.

Another way of looking at it: this is the punishment being dished out to the Tory deserters who plumped for Leave. Makes it more likely Boris Johnson and co won't have everything their own way on 24 June if the pound crashed and the stock market implodes. It's basically a "no, you don't get to waltz in and take our jobs after the mess you created" message.

 

[dougs]

It is starting....

The markets and experts said:

if we leave the share prices will drop
the pound and the euro will drop
money will head for stability - gold and the dollar
uk interest rates on international markets will go up

All are happening as we speak

So wether you want in or out this is the reallity that is now happening and will continue

If UK interest rates go up then we have less cash to spend on the NHS, investment etc etc etc

Simply the markets said this is what they would do and it is what they are now doing.

So it really does not matter what we think will happen in the state of an exit, the markets and the experts are dictating the game.

Doug

 

[Edwin]

On the other hand, what would make you vote leave, or consider voting leave?

Nothing. The only uncertain situation is on the leave side - as I've already said, if we Remain then Friday 24 June is the same as Thursday 23 June. There's no "period of uncertainty" covering months, years or decades, no possible parade of companies cutting staff and investors turning away from the UK.

Whereas because of the 2-year leave timeframe, the brexit scenario could turn into long, drawn out, agonising economic death.

I agree it might not. But my question about Leave camp sentiment was specifically about IF it does play out that way.

 

[Toonz]

I would like to ask the Leave camp whether you would still vote Leave if you knew that, after a Brexit, we were still going to have to continue with free movement as part of a trade deal, in other words, immigration to the UK would remain "uncontrolled".

(Don't say it won't. This is a "what if" question )

 

[martin-s]

I would like to ask the Leave camp whether you would still vote Leave if you knew that, after a Brexit, we were still going to have to continue with free movement as part of a trade deal, in other words, immigration to the UK would remain "uncontrolled".

Yes, I would.