EU Referendum

[websaway]

I don't think anyone in this thread has even once said that discussing or controlling immigration is racist.

Are you now interested in what experts have to say - or is it just the ones who conveniently support your position?

This is a fallacy that I don't like experts, but it is a little like saying do you like meat. Some good, some not so good, some terrible.
And what I said originally was that "he who pays the piper calls the tune"

You need to trawl back and see who has played the racist card. Though less so recently since it dawned on them that it no longer holds water.

 

[bonusmedia]

I thought I was hearing things . The general secretary of the PCS Union said. If we vote to leave, who will be the happiest when we wake up on June 24th It's going to be Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson, not exactly rocket science. And what about the majority of the Voting population who will have recovered their sovereignty. They'll be dancing in the Mall.

Actually most people will be at work - for a while at least

 

[bonusmedia]

This is a fallacy that I don't like experts, but it is a little like saying do you like meat. Some good, some not so good, some terrible.
And what I said originally was that "he who pays the piper calls the tune"

You need to trawl back and see who has played the racist card. Though less so recently since it dawned on them that it no longer holds water.

No need. No-one has said discussing or controlling immigration is racist. You've interpreted it that way because it suits your purpose

 

[Toonz]

Everything being discussed here is based on theories. What I've introduce is cold hard verifiable facts....names and actions that are not subject to interpretation and are recorded in history.
When you get some spare brain capacity, do yourself and your descendants a favour and educate yourself.

How far do you go with the Icke stuff? Do you believe they're reptilian shapeshifters, or is it just the elites' march to the microchipped one world government that you're not keen on? Sincere question btw. (I speak as a recovering Icke-aholic)((*hicc*))

 

[BREWSTERS]

I certainly don't know everything, I'm reasonably confident in my ability to discern the reliability of sources, and certain that 'mainstream' history has enough conspiracies without adding the crazed ramblings of David Icke types on the internet.

I understand it is tempting to ascribe your problems to the machinations of a shadowy elite that controls everything, but I'm afraid it's just fallible human beings all the way down. Wake up Sheeple

Thats fine, as they say 'ignorance is bliss'. "I don't need to verify that because....I would already know it if it was true".

Really it's ok, you're not alone - a lot of people discount things without checking facts because they believe they know better. Funny thing is though, if they heard it on telly, or read it in the papers, they'd be all over it like a cheap suit!

 

[bonusmedia]

Come on then, what's your theory

 

[websaway]

I said earlier in this thread . How irresponsible of Cameron to talk the pound and the stock market down. He will have to be held to account if it results in innocent people losing out.

 

[Edwin]

Perhaps the lizardmen who built the pyramids and faked the moon landing could be discussed in their own thread? This is in "The Bar" after all.

That way, this thread has at least a tiny chance of veering back on topic!

 

[bonusmedia]

It would be more entertaining than Websaway's repeated insistence that Nigel Farage is on to something

 

[websaway]

Don't expect some to appreciate this observation, but like it or not an enormous amount of people ( I avoided saying the majority ) are annoyed about uncontrolled immigration. Over the years most people, and we have to appreciate that not everyone can voice their opinions in an eloquent manner, and the race card brigade are quick to jump on people who try to explain that they are not content with hoards of people swamping their towns and cities, by labelling them racist.
The result is they have been ignored by the very politicians that they put in office to help them.

 

[Edwin]

A lot of interesting new stuff in this article...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Bear in mind that, in theory at least, George Osborne had all the power he needs to put forward that revised budget. There's nothing Vote Leave can do to stop him. And once it's published it's official Tory policy, even though most of it would almost certainly never get enacted because backbench rebels would combine with opposition MPs to vote stuff down. (Some stuff is under the Chancellor's remit and doesn't need approval.)

In other words the Remain Tories would rather blow their credibility with the electorate by breaking their manifesto promises, rather than lose the EU. More selfless than I expected, and just goes to show just how insanely high the stakes are!

Notice too that Vote Leave want to punt the actual "leaving" of the EU out to beyond 2020 ie they're so unconfident of being able to deliver a good deal, they want to run out the clock on this full Parliament first...

 

[websaway]

Perhaps the lizardmen who built the pyramids and faked the moon landing could be discussed in their own thread? This is in "The Bar" after all.

That way, this thread has at least a tiny chance of veering back on topic!

I would still love to hear your take on Sovereignty, you still haven't graced us with your opinion. Or are you one of those that say it's the price we pay for remaining in the EU ?

 

[bonusmedia]

hoards of people swamping their towns and cities

That bit, right there, is racist. If you're not sure why get someone to explain it to you

 

[websaway]

A lot of interesting new stuff in this article...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Bear in mind that, in theory at least, George Osborne had all the power he needs to put forward that revised budget. There's nothing Vote Leave can do to stop him. And once it's published it's official Tory policy, even though most of it would almost certainly never get enacted because backbench rebels would combine with opposition MPs to vote stuff down. (Some stuff is under the Chancellor's remit and doesn't need approval.)

In other words the Remain Tories would rather blow their credibility with the electorate by breaking their manifesto promises, rather than lose the EU. More selfless than I expected, and just goes to show just how insanely high the stakes are!

Notice too that Vote Leave want to punt the actual "leaving" of the EU out to beyond 2020 ie they're so unconfident of being able to deliver a good deal, they want to run out the clock on this full Parliament first...

Em perhaps a new chancellor who can do the job he's paid to do. Without talking us into recession.

 

[bonusmedia]

A lot of interesting new stuff in this article...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Bear in mind that, in theory at least, George Osborne had all the power he needs to put forward that revised budget. There's nothing Vote Leave can do to stop him. And once it's published it's official Tory policy, even though most of it would almost certainly never get enacted because backbench rebels would combine with opposition MPs to vote stuff down. (Some stuff is under the Chancellor's remit and doesn't need approval.)

In other words the Remain Tories would rather blow their credibility with the electorate by breaking their manifesto promises, rather than lose the EU. More selfless than I expected, and just goes to show just how insanely high the stakes are!

Notice too that Vote Leave want to punt the actual "leaving" of the EU out to beyond 2020 ie they're so unconfident of being able to deliver a good deal, they want to run out the clock on this full Parliament first...

Do have to give him some credit for this, but saying 'I told you so' isn't going to help the country much.

 

[BREWSTERS]

You haven't stated any facts whatosever, you've said trade, immigration and money are 'smokescreens' and made a vague demand that others should 'look into' some names. You've also suggested that you know something the rest of us don't because we haven't looked it up on the internet like you have, and that we are all idiots beholden to the 'controlled media'. All the hallmarks of a conspiracy theorist - and for that reason I've discounted what you've said. For example, do you believe 9/11 was an inside job?

I saw David Shayler speak once before he lost the plot and proclaimed himself to be Jesus. He was an idiot.

Then again perhaps you've hit on something really important and we've all missed it - so why not explain your theory? Please cite your sources.

You're guards up because you don't want to be proven wrong, so you will fight whatever I say.
For now, all I will say is that Hallstein, the first President of the EU, was a legal representative for the Nazis before and throughout WW2. Fact. Check it out anywhere.
Prescott Bush was a main source of financing the Nazi party.
Operation Paperclip brought many leading Nazis from Germany to America before the end of the war fact. Werner Von Braun (?...I'm crap with names!) was one of them and became head of NASA.
These are all facts - I wish they werent. Disprove them if you can...I couldnt.

9/11? Haha. I bet you believe Orlando was a Muslim extremist too eh?

 

[Edwin]

Em perhaps a new chancellor who can do the job he's paid to do. Without talking us into recession.

By tapping the magic money tree? You could put the smartest person in the world in charge of the economy, and they still won't be able to spend money that doesn't exist!

Did you not listen to the Today segment from this morning? Vote Leave's figures have been comprehensively debunked.

 

[bonusmedia]

off topic - withdrawn

 

[Edwin]

What would Brexit mean for the NHS, social care and disabled people?
https://www.theguardian.com/society...lth-social-care-disabled-people-eu-referendum

 

[Edwin]

A question for the Leave camp:

What if the more pessimistic predictions turn out to be right? Would you change your feelings about wanting to leave the EU if the economy craters within days or weeks of the 23 June vote being tallied, and the headlines fill with companies laying off staff?

Or would you want the Tories to press on with the brexit process to the bitter end, regardless?