EU Referendum

[websaway]

Cameron is laying it on thick about the risks of leaving.
It reminds me of a man sitting in his prison cell on the day of his release and pondering the problems he has after his release, he may naturally think it much safer and secure to be in a prison even though it denies him his liberty. Institutionalised .
I can just see all the labour supporters who he is appealing to save his neck, at least most of them would willingly man the noose. I think if he had been more statesmanlike from outset and laid his case out and let the people decide he may have had more support. People see him lying from every angle since his return from Brussels and that has not done his case much good.
He says "what can the leave campaign guarantee you ?"

Oh m what about immigration control and sovereignty . The things the English public feel matters above everything else. As they were asked to do in the second world war and answered the call.

 

[websaway]

There are six people in a boat with a bag of gold weighing 10 stone. They have a full capacity on board. They come across a man in the water and discuss the possibility of taking the man on board. The conversation revolves mostly around the devastating effects of throwing the gold overboard. The issue is particularly pertinent to the one of the six that owns the gold. Not sure how long he could continue to argue his case before the other five throw him overboard.

 

[martin-s]

Oh, and the UK has a $170 billion budget deficit (difference between govt income and what it spends.) Germany has a $25 billion surplus.

Germany's surplus is one of the Euro's biggest problems as I'm sure you know!

 

[Edwin]

Germany's surplus is one of the Euro's biggest problems as I'm sure you know!

You're mixing budget surplus up with trade surplus. Two different things.

 

[websaway]

Good article by Peter Hitchens in the DM
He says " Labour doesn’t love the poor. It loves the London elite. The Tories don’t love the country. They love only money."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...CHENS-British-people-risen-unleash-chaos.html

 

[websaway]

I know it is, but the economy drives everything ...like it or not

ee

Except in times of war or suchlike.

 

[websaway]

Sam Cam says this morning she will not gamble with her childrens future.
I can't say I blame her wanting the status quo when everything she has is perfect. And then on to eventually living in Brussels if David wins, and if the EU goes tits up off to America .. Nice to have choice, I'm sure the masses will relate favourably to her situation.

 

[websaway]

another interesting article for those undecided.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/679072/turkey-migrants-eu-visa-free-travel-referendum

 

[websaway]

Osbourne threatening more cuts this morning if we leave the EU.
Love to know how he is going to get his measures through the unelected Lords, he's had a lot of problems lately. How did he know we were voting out when he attacked WTC and Disability benefits or do these things happen anyway. I can't understand why he has not said the rich will have to pay a wealth tax to help bolster the economy. Could it be that he already has their vote.

 

[martin-s]

You're mixing budget surplus up with trade surplus. Two different things.

I'm not sure if you think I'm stupid, but I'm starting to feel like I'm being talked down to.

We are both talking about the budget surplus.

 

[websaway]

Those most worried about immigration are those with the least experience of it - just look at the UKIP demographics.

If you mean the refugee crisis, leaving the EU does not mean we can wash our hands of those fleeing warzones.

Historically we were quite good at helping with that sort of issue - and countries that do have always been richer for it - literally

How can you sort out who you should help to accommodate when there is no way of knowing how many are coming ?

 

[Mark84]

Without leaving the EEA, we'd be bound by a whole host of regulations that those voting for brexit want to get away from - including free movement, one of the main reasons people are voting for brexit to begin with.

Nope sorry may have crossed wires, what I mean is that the UK if votes for Brexit, the people are not voting to leave the EEA. If the EU / EEA members require the UK to leave because of the Brexit then so be it.

If negotiations don't get special exemptions to free movement of workers, then yes we would be leaving be default. I just don't think a brexit vote means automatically the negotiations team doesn't try to get exemptions to stay.

There are benefits of course to leaving the EEA, stop passporting and make companies pay UK taxes more easily. Enforce UK regulations , whilst I don't agree with some UK regulations on financial products. The very fact that I can move my business to another EEA country and trade back to the UK over the internet and totally avoid FCA rules is odd.

 

[gimpydog]

"The UK’s air pollution crisis would get worse if the country votes to leave the European Union, according to a new poll of environment professionals.
The poll, of almost 1,200 professionals, found that 48% thought standards for UK air quality would get worse if the UK left the EU..."

or, you could say...

A new poll found that 52% of environment professionals do NOT think the UK’s air pollution crisis would get worse if the country votes to leave the European Union.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...increase-uks-air-pollution-crisis-say-experts

 

[websaway]

I wonder if the black hole the treasury forecast has taken into consideration the benefits to the economy of 100,000 selected immigrants, ie those that are high earning professionals ( not immigration lawyers ) who would immediately be higher rate tax payers.

 

[gimpydog]

I ask because Boris Johnson went to Eton and Oxford, Michael Gove went to Oxford too, .

Oxford is just like Cambridge, but without the buggery.

 

[websaway]

Good article by Simon Heffer in the telegraph.

He says about voting out.
"Do not underestimate how this would please millions of Britons, who find politicians largely despicable and whose opinion has not been improved by the arrogant and insulting conduct of the Remain campaign"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...aders-are-remain-but-their-core-voters-arent/

 

[websaway]

Express today,

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-camp-take-19-POINT-lead-Britons-flock-Brexit

 

[websaway]

What will happen when the remains have to eventually address the indefensible issue of sovereignty. Do they have any arguments to pacify the masses who do not want to give up freedom and democracy.

Will the arguments be any better than the fact that Sam Cam fears for her childrens future. Maybe because they won't get jobs like lord and lady Kinnocks son or be able to buy a huge portfolio of property for their children so they can be landlords like the Blairs.

 

[websaway]

And Mr Duddridge, the Foreign Office minister for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, warned: “The EU is a secretive organisation that doesn’t want documents in the public domain that recognise that it’s a federalist attempt at a state with all the trappings of a state, including a European police force and European army.

“If people knew the truth of where the EU might be in a few years, let alone a few decades, there would be a resounding vote in support of Brexit.

“The EU has a federalist vision and it will inch towards it if it can’t leap towards it, and it will do it secretly if it can’t do it openly and publicly.”


http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ice-Minister-James-Duddridge-Euro-army-Brexit

 

[bonusmedia]

Is it any surprise that a UKIP-supporting far-right populist tabloid supports Brexit?
This is the paper that accused the McCanns of murdering Madelaine and the Royals of killing Diana.