EU Referendum

[websaway]

Are you under the illusion that if we stay in the EU the EU won't change?

Yes, it's not an illusion though. If we stay the EU will not change to benefit us, it will keep reeling us in and eroding our sovereignty. And Merkels days are numbered, what will it look like when she's gone ?

 

[RobM]

Nobody on this thread, nor anyone in the media in the "wider world" has claimed that a "Remain" would fix "everything that's wrong" with the EU. So why resort to a straw man argument?

Because somehow you've turned to suggesting the EU may change after a remain vote. Just building an argument out of what you're clutching at.

 

[websaway]

BTW, I'd like to come back to something I posted earlier in this mega-thread: I have zero expectation of changing the opinion of anyone who's already firmly in the Leave camp.

All I'm trying to do is make as much information as possible available to those who've yet to make up their minds.

Well get started then, all your info is biased, student union stuff, it's mostly conjecture and very little information about the facts of immigration, law and sovereignty.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.

 

[ian]

Wow, what did I start! Really interesting hearing different points of view; clearly a wealth of information out there. My vote has been cast, we'll see what happens. Interesting times ahead.

 

[RobM]

Just found an interesting line from Wikipedia (yes we know it's not a source of facts):

'Between 2008 and 2012 Malta received, on average, the highest number of asylum seekers compared to its national population: 21.7 applicants per 1,000 inhabitants.[13] In 2011, most of these asylum applications were submitted by nationals of Somalia, Nigeria, Eritrea and Syria.[14] In 2012, more than half of the requests were by Somalian nationals alone
As a member of the European Union and of the Schengen agreement, Malta is bound by the Dublin Regulation to process all claims for asylum by those asylum seekers that enter EU territory for the first time in Malta'

We still have a massive overpopulation and immigration problem. Now before you get all excited yes these people are NOT from EU countries (although we'll probably get a few thousand when Turkey joins even though we only have a population of 400,000) but note that we ARE told by Europe what we can do with them. We've been told where to hold them, how many we can send to other countries, and how many we have to house. This is not conjecture it has happened and is continuing to happen. If we had a vote here I suspect most people would vote out for exactly the same reason that some people in UK have been claiming doesn't happen.

 

[websaway]

Does anyone think the way things are developing that Brussels will be in a position to just carry on business as normal on June 24 if we vote out. If we go then Holland and Denmark will want a referendum. Merkel will simply not be able to defend her policy of building the EU population by the sudden mass importation of middle east cultures. The EU will be in crises not the UK as predicted by the bodies of self interested EU prop up merchants. Why do you think the establishment is desperate to stay in, not in the interests of the UK but in the interests of the EU.
Have a look at the security necessary for the Euro's soccer tournament. It's like a war zone. We are at war with ISIS and instead of defending our borders as is normal in times of war, we let them roam freely around Europe. How long are the people of France and Germany or Greece and Spain who's tourist economies have been devastated by ISIS attacks, going to put up with a united states of Europe where we share our terrorists. BTW has anyone thought how Turkey will react when they hear that Cameron has said they can't join until 3000, or when they get in will he say he was joking like all the other lies he's spinning.

 

[Edwin]

This could be fun (the precursor, "Ballot Monkeys", was good in the run-up to the last election)
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/power-monkeys

 

[gimpydog]

'VoteLeave' dominates Twitter users' posts on Brexit

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-twitter-idUSKCN0YU1OV

View that how you like.

 

[gimpydog]

Holland ... will want a referendum.

Hmmm....Didn't that happen once before?

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[Edwin]

'VoteLeave' dominates Twitter users' posts on Brexit

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-twitter-idUSKCN0YU1OV

View that how you like.

Just a bit of fun...

I did a quick tally of the last 100 "#leave" Tweets in my "Live" timeline (discarding those that were nothing to do with the referendum). Of those 100:
61 were pro-leave.
17 were pro-remain.
22 were neutral.

Then the last 100 "#remain" Tweets:
53 were pro-remain
32 were pro-leave
15 were neutral

So it's clear that there's more pro-leave sentiment within that small sample than pro-remain.

 

[martin-s]

Are you under the illusion that if we stay in the EU the EU won't change?

It's not an illusion. The only change we can expect is change for the worse.

 

[denchomsky]

The EU referendum. Keep calm, think clearly – and ignore the alarmism of the Treasury - http://bit.ly/1TVLQJC

 

[newguy]

Odds are staying quite firm with Remain at 1/3. I do certainly feel that the momentum is with leave right now though. I think others sense that too and it could feed back into how they vote on the day. Interesting times.

 

[Brassneck]

Odds are staying quite firm with Remain at 1/3. I do certainly feel that the momentum is with leave right now though. I think others sense that too and it could feed back into how they vote on the day. Interesting times.

Watching Betfair I'm seeing quite a steady move back to remain compared to the weekend when it was more like 1/2.

 

[websaway]

This is a very interesting read it's William Hague from last November when the Government were vey gung ho about leaving the EU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...e-hurricane-that-will-soon-engulf-Europe.html

 

[BREWSTERS]

It's simple.
The EU is a step towards global government - and it's failing. Think about it...how can what's right for one country also be right for 27 others who all have different skill-sets, mind-sets, natural assets? It doesn't work.

The EU stifles trade. I'm logistics manager for a company that trades globally - it's easier trading with China (and anywhere) than it is some countries within the EU. I doubt that would change if we leave, but the point is, being part of the EU doesn't make it easier.

Add to this the absolute unaccountability of the EU Commission (the ONLY body who decides anything) who have never been voted for. The EU masquerades as a democracy; a democracy requires the leadership to have been voted for by the majority. NONE of the EU Commission have been voted in. £350m a week going to an unelected, unaccountable, and un-audited body. This clown is one of them....would you let him slap you? Well, he already is.

I've been to over half the countries in Europe, and I like them all for what they are. I love Italy, because it's Italy; France because it's France. If we do leave you will see other countries pulling out...and that's good - it doesn't work.

 

[Toonz]

Predictions for June 24th.

If Remain wins, it will be said that they only won because of their Project Fear stories about economic armageddon and WW3. There will be a few speculating that the immigration tactic backfired and that the divisive Farage was given too much airtime.

If Leave wins, it will be said that they only won because of their Project Fear stories about immigrant hordes invading and raping our women. There will also be accusations that Cameron was too often centre stage.

In short, whatever happens come June 24th, there will be a LOT of moaning and cries of foul play.

 

[Skinner]

I got amazing odds when I placed my bet a few years ago, it were a 2 part bet. I'm getting a bit of the rabbits nose now as the cash out is quite a few times my stake

have you put money on it ?

Watching Betfair I'm seeing quite a steady move back to remain compared to the weekend when it was more like 1/2.

 

[AlistairM]

Did anyone just watch Andrew Neil and George Osborne on BBC1? Showed exactly what a snide David Cameron is and Nigel Farage has got them running scared.

 

[Edwin]

Has anyone thought of fixing their mortgage against the possibility of an interest rate hike post-vote? (Osborne suggested that the Bank of England might have to counter rising inflation through the interest rate mechanism in the case of a recession) There seem to be a number of 5-year fixes out there under 2.5%, according to https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/best-buys/ - and even a 10-year fix is under 3%!