EU Referendum

[websaway]

Hold on, you can't have it both ways. You were bragging about having 5 ex-Chancellors a minute ago. Not only was that claim wrong, you're now being selective in how you judge them.

Did I say 5 my mistake I mean two and both extremely distinguished.

 

[websaway]

Let's keep this simple. The stay campaign is conjecture about the economic affects of leaving. The leave campaign is not about conjecture it's about facts, facts about immigration and sovereignty.

 

[websaway]

It's easy to lose sight of what's happening when we concentrate on what MIGHT be. It's far better to look at what we actually know WILL be. So the argument should really be about can we cope with unknown amounts of people both good and bad coming into our country. If we can then let's to told how. We are losing our sovereignty and our freedom to create our own laws and moving away from the democracy we created. Can we live with that and how do we do that. This argument should not be about economics, it's a red herring.

 

[Toonz]

I guess we'll have to wait for their demonstration then

Guess we will.

 

[Edwin]

The leaders of 10 trade unions, representing 6 million workers, urge their members to vote "Remain"...

“Despite words to the contrary from figures like Iain Duncan Smith and Michael Gove, the Tories would negotiate our exit and, we believe, would negotiate away our rights. We simply do not trust this government if they are presented with an unrestricted, unchecked opportunity to attack our current working rights.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ers-call-on-6m-members-to-vote-against-brexit

I suppose they'll be suspected of ulterior motives next!

In this action, they're joining the TUC (Britain's largest trade union) who, in February this year, laid out a clear case for staying in the EU in order to protect workers' rights.
https://www.tuc.org.uk/international-issues/europe/employment-and-social-policy/eu-referendum/tuc-report-outlines-workers’

The TUC white paper
https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK employment rights and the EU_0.pdf

More background from one of the TUC blogs
http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2016/04/best-best-possible-brexits-rather-isnt/

 

[RobM]

'...the 10 trade union leaders said they were clear that the social and cultural benefits of remaining in the EU far outweigh any advantages of leaving, while acknowledging it needs to change and “move away from a path of austerity”.

Oh does Europe need to change? Has it ever? Has anyone ever changed any policy or law decided there? Well maybe in the future.

 

[RobM]

Just an aside Edwin - how are you editing your post? Is there an option staring me in the face that I haven't seen?

 

[Edwin]

Just an aside Edwin - how are you editing your post? Is there an option staring me in the face that I haven't seen?

On my phone, there's a little "hamburger" style stacked menu next to the timestamp with an "edit" option in it. Probably similar on a PC but mine's off for the night.

So hardly "in your face" but it is there!

 

[Edwin]

Deadline to register to vote in the referendum is midnight tomorrow (Tuesday).

More information about who is eligible to vote, and how the process works...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/how-do-i-vote-in-the-eu-referendum

(There is nothing whatsoever on the page I linked to above about which way you should vote!)

 

[newguy]

--

 

[signature]

"Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learnt. There is a pro-Remain majority in the House of Commons of 454 MPs to 147. The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120

Having free movement after Brexit will be a blow to a lot of Brexiters, immigration is their main course of voting out. Not sure how that will plan out...

 

[signature]

Just been reading a report on BBC about the EU Referendum in the 1975 and their predictions, the last sentence on the article sums up the arguments on both sides:

"it is best to take confident predictions about what might happen in the future, from either side, with a large pinch of salt."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36367246

 

[websaway]

The leaders of 10 trade unions, representing 6 million workers, urge their members to vote "Remain"...



http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ers-call-on-6m-members-to-vote-against-brexit

I suppose they'll be suspected of ulterior motives next!

In this action, they're joining the TUC (Britain's largest trade union) who, in February this year, laid out a clear case for staying in the EU in order to protect workers' rights.
https://www.tuc.org.uk/international-issues/europe/employment-and-social-policy/eu-referendum/tuc-report-outlines-workers’

The TUC white paper
https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK employment rights and the EU_0.pdf

More background from one of the TUC blogs
http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2016/04/best-best-possible-brexits-rather-isnt/

I think you'll find most want to remain in a reformed EU. That's a cop out, everyone would want to remain in a reformed EU. Reformed by limiting closer ties, reformed by limiting movement of people, etc etc. But there is not going to be any reform and a reformed EU is not on the ballot paper.

 

[Edwin]

I think you'll find most want to remain in a reformed EU. That's a cop out, everyone would want to remain in a reformed EU. Reformed by limiting closer ties, reformed by limiting movement of people, etc etc. But there is not going to be any reform and a reformed EU is not on the ballot paper.

A number of reforms that benefit Britain will be activated almost immediately or within the months after a "Remain" vote, so the status quo will already have shifted in the UK's favour compared to the situation right now.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...special-status-deal-if-uk-votes-to-stay-in-eu

And with the drumbeat for referenda growing louder in France, the Netherlands and other countries, the EU is going to have to seek to change to quell similar "exit" calls as the one which would have just been defeated in the UK.

It may not change as much or as fast as many people would like - in fact, it's almost guaranteed not to given the need to form 28-country consensuses. But it will change, or face disintegration at some later date from some other vote (and in the latter case the "Leave" camp win what they were after anyway).

 

[websaway]

Deadline to register to vote in the referendum is midnight tomorrow (Tuesday).

More information about who is eligible to vote, and how the process works...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/how-do-i-vote-in-the-eu-referendum

(There is nothing whatsoever on the page I linked to above about which way you should vote!)

Tim Roach GMB union said yesterday on the Television that he would be advising his members to stay in a" reformed EU". How deceptive is that.
I repeat, if reformed EU was on the ballot paper we would be discussing reforms. This is a dimension to the argument that does not exist.

 

[bonusmedia]

I know what a strawman argument is but thanks for the link. I don't need to 'shut you down' I was just pointing out that you suggested people with an opinion were 'armchair economists' who don't know enough and therefore shouldn't state their opinions as others knew more. A strawman argument, by the way, would be IF you hadn't made your post and I suggested you did and then argued against it. I could be childish and post a link explaining what an argument is called when you accuse someone of the wrong type of argument but I wont

You misrepresented my argument and continue to do so.

 

[bonusmedia]

Pound is sliding based on the polls, if you want to hedge against a leave vote it's probably time to buy dollars

 

[bonusmedia]

Having free movement after Brexit will be a blow to a lot of Brexiters, immigration is their main course of voting out. Not sure how that will plan out...

Apparently it will come as a complete surprise to many of them.

 

[RobM]

I don't think armchair financial advisors should give advice that may be costly to people accepting it. The pound may get stronger after a leave vote. It may get weaker. It may get stronger after a remain vote. It may get weaker.

 

[bonusmedia]

Tim Roach GMB union said yesterday on the Television that he would be advising his members to stay in a" reformed EU". How deceptive is that.
I repeat, if reformed EU was on the ballot paper we would be discussing reforms. This is a dimension to the argument that does not exist.

Cameron's reforms apply the day after we vote remain, whatever you think of them