EU Referendum

[AlistairM]

When we leave I don't think all these countries are suddenly going to stick 2 fingers up and refuse to trade with us. The EU is one thing but if it's in a countries interests to trade with us (like Germany) then do people honestly think they're going to say go and get stuffed? I don't think so.

Actually they're more likely to want a deal done as quickly as possible.

 

[AssetDomains]

In regards to the argument about cheap labour supressing wages does the same thing happen in other big EU countries such as Germany or France or are there governments/unions better at protecting workers from exploitation by there employers

 

[Edwin]

The integrity of the EU is worth vastly more to other core members than keeping the UK "sweet" and on side. So it's utterly logical to expect them to take a harsh line in any negotiations.

 

[RobM]

I don't believe the referendum is about whether the EU wants UK to stay in or not.

 

[Skinner]

I honestly expect the EU to make an example of the UK. By make an example I mean Crucify us, this is what happens when you don't be a good boy and tow the line.

Those saying the germans bmws and french champers blah, how can the germans expect to stop other countries trying the same if they bow down ? how can they expect the other members to back them for their own benefit ?

I really do think we'll be forced to look elsewhere other than the EU for a good deal.

 

[Edwin]

It's interesting to see what happens to the balance within the EU parliament with the UK's MEPs out of the picture ie in the case of a Leave scenario...
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-would-the-european-parliament-look-like-after-brexit/

 

[RobM]

It's interesting to see what happens to the balance within the EU parliament with the UK's MEPs out of the picture ie in the case of a Leave scenario...
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-would-the-european-parliament-look-like-after-brexit/

Not really.

 

[Edwin]

In regards to the argument about cheap labour supressing wages does the same thing happen in other big EU countries such as Germany or France or are there governments/unions better at protecting workers from exploitation by there employers

France generally has much better working conditions than the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36387492

 

[AlistairM]

I really do think we'll be forced to look elsewhere other than the EU for a good deal.

Once we're out of the EU we'll have the freedom to do exactly that.

 

[RobM]

I don't think the leave or remain campaign care about how Europe copes with either decision. They're probably based on how it will affect the people of UK living in UK. This thread seems to have taken a turn towards the impact on Europe after the vote.

 

[websaway]

I honestly expect the EU to make an example of the UK. By make an example I mean Crucify us, this is what happens when you don't be a good boy and tow the line.

Those saying the germans bmws and french champers blah, how can the germans expect to stop other countries trying the same if they bow down ? how can they expect the other members to back them for their own benefit ?

I really do think we'll be forced to look elsewhere other than the EU for a good deal.

Because the other members are in the Euro Zone , this Is the massive difference between us and others. Forget all this rubbish about mortgage rates rising and the pound crashing , it's all hype, We have our own currency. Companies are not all of a sudden going to up sticks and move out of the UK, people are not going to sell the pound. We are probably among the three most secure countries in the world for finance. If I was based in Europe and we left I know where I would invest. Yes you've guessed it, in an independent UK. If companies do feel the need to alter their strategy because we are no longer EU members, as many or more will move here for the same reason. Who bailed everyone out in the last recession ? we did not need help from the EU we elected a coalition that steered us through the difficulties and it's the poor that took the hit's , no higher taxes for the rich, the rich got progressively richer as a result of austerity, doesn't anyone find that ironic. And how are the rich treating the poor now. Overloading their healthcare, overloading their schools, driving their wages down, creating a domestic renting nation. For heavens sake will someone who relates to labour voters tell it the way it is. I can tell people one thing, desire to buy your own house has kept this nation peaceful for as long as I can remember, that has been removed from the ambition of most of the younger British born people, who now have to work just to rent property, government ignores this shift in our culture at the countries peril.

 

[spiderspider]

So it's utterly logical to expect them to take a harsh line in any negotiations.

Logical to you maybe, not me.

The UK is the 3rd biggest market for German exports*, behind USA and France. We're Germany's 9th importer**

https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFig...anyTradingPartners.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

You do have to ask, what was the 2000 Euro imported from Norfolk Islands?????

That trade won't be stopped. If it is, would probably put Euro back into recession. You seem to be forgetting that all these countries have economies, and people to answer to.

The FACTS speak for themselves. Just because its not in the Guardian (or is), don't make it right (or wrong).

*Same for France
**5th France http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/fra/

 

[signature]

Because the other members are in the Euro Zone , this Is the massive difference between us and others. Forget all this rubbish about mortgage rates rising and the pound crashing , it's all hype, We have our own currency. Companies are not all of a sudden going to up sticks and move out of the UK, people are not going to sell the pound. We are probably among the three most secure countries in the world for finance. If I was based in Europe and we left I know where I would invest. Yes you've guessed it, in an independent UK. If companies do feel the need to alter their strategy because we are no longer EU members, as many or more will move here for the same reason. Who bailed everyone out in the last recession ? we did not need help from the EU we elected a coalition that steered us through the difficulties and it's the poor that took the hit's , no higher taxes for the rich, the rich got progressively richer as a result of austerity, doesn't anyone find that ironic. And how are the rich treating the poor now. Overloading their healthcare, overloading their schools, driving their wages down, creating a domestic renting nation. For heavens sake will someone who relates to labour voters tell it the way it is. I can tell people one thing, desire to buy your own house has kept this nation peaceful for as long as I can remember, that has been removed from the ambition of most of the younger British born people, who now have to work just to rent property, government ignores this shift in our culture at the countries peril.

As much as I reason with your point, richer getting richer at the expense of the poor is as a result of government policy choices, nothing to do with EU.

Current government in the last 6 years embark on austerity policies, when we choose to fund cuts with borrowing, the poor are the only one that will suffer, the choice of what is been cut also affect the poor.

Its a choice we made as a nation when we elect the government we had since 2010, the fundamentals of conservatives is small government, no matter who leads the party, hence the cuts and sell off, they even have a think tank body for it.

As much as I agree with your point this issue is our own making very little to do with EU, actually if not the EU intervention in some situation, it might even be worse.

Remember this government fought the EU with regards to bonuses to bankers and level of taxes to finance companies.

With regards to owing your own home, if this current government continues on the same path, the current housing problems will be nothing compare to what it will be in the future. What we are experiencing now is a policy shift on housing in the 80s, I don't need to add the controversy of green belt to it and this is also deviating from the issue of EU "IN or OUT" vote.

If I am wrong I am open to correction but our poor getting poorer, first time buyer issues are majority to do with our current economy policies.

 

[Toonz]

As much as I reason with your point, richer getting richer at the expense of the poor is as a result of government policy choices, nothing to do with EU.

Current government in the last 6 years embark on austerity policies, when we choose to fund cuts with borrowing, the poor are the only one that will suffer, the choice of what is been cut also affect the poor.

Its a choice we made as a nation when we elect the government we had since 2010, the fundamentals of conservatives is small government, no matter who leads the party, hence the cuts and sell off, they even have a think tank body for it.

As much as I agree with your point this issue is our own making very little to do with EU, actually if not the EU intervention in some situation, it might even be worse.

Remember this government fought the EU with regards to bonuses to bankers and level of taxes to finance companies.

With regards to owing your own home, if this current government continues on the same path, the current housing problems will be nothing compare to what it will be in the future. What we are experiencing now is a policy shift on housing in the 80s, I don't need to add the controversy of green belt to it and this is also deviating from the issue of EU "IN or OUT" vote.

If I am wrong I am open to correction but our poor getting poorer, first time buyer issues are majority to do with our current economy policies.

I think you raise important points. The UK has a long record of blocking/vetoing the EU's worker-friendly, consumer-friendly legislation, much as the US does when negotiating with other international bodies. The idea that the working man - the 'have-not' - will be better off out is, I think, naive. I accept that putting a halt to wage deflation is a positive. That's good. But when you weigh that up against the free market fanaticism so beloved of most of the leading Brexiters and the loss of sovereignty to corporations that I expect to take place (and yes that's a prediction, but we're all making predictions here) - for me it pales by comparison.

 

[websaway]

As much as I reason with your point, richer getting richer at the expense of the poor is as a result of government policy choices, nothing to do with EU.

Current government in the last 6 years embark on austerity policies, when we choose to fund cuts with borrowing, the poor are the only one that will suffer, the choice of what is been cut also affect the poor.

Its a choice we made as a nation when we elect the government we had since 2010, the fundamentals of conservatives is small government, no matter who leads the party, hence the cuts and sell off, they even have a think tank body for it.

As much as I agree with your point this issue is our own making very little to do with EU, actually if not the EU intervention in some situation, it might even be worse.

Remember this government fought the EU with regards to bonuses to bankers and level of taxes to finance companies.

With regards to owing your own home, if this current government continues on the same path, the current housing problems will be nothing compare to what it will be in the future. What we are experiencing now is a policy shift on housing in the 80s, I don't need to add the controversy of green belt to it and this is also deviating from the issue of EU "IN or OUT" vote.

If I am wrong I am open to correction but our poor getting poorer, first time buyer issues are majority to do with our current economy policies.

The point I make is that we will not suffer the increased economy pressures that Cameron is projecting. Higher interest rates he says could add £1000 per year to your mortgage payments, he doesn't mention it will also mean a better return on savings.
I think you miss the point I make that uncontrolled immigration and all it's implications is the fault of EU membership. The bankers bonuses were a small proportion compared to the amount that have got richer through low cost borrowing, increased domestic property ownership and higher rents .

 

[bonusmedia]

Presumably most armchair economists making grand pronouncements with such certainty are not actually involved in making big corporate investment decisions - so what on earth gives them the confidence they can tell us what will happen after Brexit - especially when they directly contradict the positions of the majority who actually hold that power?

I'm confident we'll remain but getting ready to buy dollars if this poll trend continues.

 

[websaway]

Presumably most armchair economists making grand pronouncements with such certainty are not actually involved in making big corporate investment decisions - so what on earth gives them the confidence they can tell us what will happen after Brexit - especially when they directly contradict the positions of the majority who actually hold that power?

I'm confident we'll remain but getting ready to buy dollars if this poll trend continues.

How can you not become, as you call it, an armchair economist, when so much of the emphasis is placed on economic decisions. By the way 5 past chancellors are backing Brexit.

 

[signature]

The point I make is that we will not suffer the increased economy pressures that Cameron is projecting. Higher interest rates he says could add £1000 per year to your mortgage payments, he doesn't mention it will also mean a better return on savings.
I think you miss the point I make that uncontrolled immigration and all it's implications is the fault of EU membership. The bankers bonuses were a small proportion compared to the amount that have got richer through low cost borrowing, increased domestic property ownership and higher rents .

Uncontrolled immigration is a big issue, remember we have open borders with EU countries for decades, its now becoming an issue with eastern block joining EU, badly managed border control and low waged economy. This is a strong point for Brexit so as Sovereignty I think, all the point you mentioned above, low cost borrowing(Japan is at this point for the last 20 years, now the rest of the world is following), increase in domestic property ownership and high rent, how is that an issue for EU?

Also Cameron saying we will be worse off by £1000/year is really a none starter, there is no one singe negative forecast for Brexit that we have not experience in recent times, in the early 90s rate hit 15% while we are in the EU, in 2008, house price in some area were almost half while we are in the EU, its just another scare tactics.

 

[Toonz]

By the way 5 past chancellors are backing Brexit.

And they are...?

 

[RobM]

Yes only people with economy degrees are allowed to discuss this. Next.