EU Referendum

[Toonz]

Not bitter at all, are you?

It's not Edwin who sounds bitter. He's making perfectly reasonable points.

 

[gimpydog]

Oh dear, it's positively wall-to-wall fruit on the left.

and sour grapes on the right?

 

[websaway]

Genuinely very worried, and quite depressed. Friends and family too.

Why are you genuinely worried and depressed , how will this affect you personally.

 

[Edwin]

Oh I wasn't really asking about the vote itself

My reason for asking is some EU laws trump UK law, in the UK.. how is that acceptable? doesn't that totally go against democracy

No. It's much more nuanced than that, but the headline-friendly "unelected elites" has tended to hide the subtleties.

It is a minor concession, a small loss of some slivver of democracy, in exchange for all sorts of other benefits.

Anyway, that's one thing I'm not going to bother to argue on past this post. It's moot anyway, because it's the rules of a club we're no longer going to be part of.

 

[VSC]

Had a chat today with a friend who voted leave.
Pleasant and open chat.
I asked him why he voted leave.
His reply was that he honestly didn't know which way to vote but as his family were voting leave, he thought he would as well.

This will have happened on both sides.

Perhaps we really need to focus on political education more.

In ancient Greece people who did not vote were regarded as ill. In Australia ( a popular model ), you are fined for not voting in elections.

Perhaps that is something else we could adopt ... a £100 fine if you do not vote, along with vastly improved laws on political campaigning and education.

 

[Toonz]

and sour grapes on the right?

Yup. Sour grapes versus the wonky bananas.

 

[gimpydog]

President Barack Obama stands by his comment that Britain will move to the back of the queue when it comes to trade deals with the United States after Brexit, the White House said on Friday.

So how many in this queue then??

 

[gimpydog]

I thought Article 50 was a fairly recent addition to the Constitution?

2009

 

[gimpydog]

In ancient Greece people who did not vote were regarded as ill. In Australia ( a popular model ), you are fined for not voting in elections. Perhaps that is something else we could adopt ... a £100 fine if you do not vote, along with vastly improved laws on political campaigning and education.

"High voter turnout is a myth when you consider that 10% of Australians are not even registered. When that myth is debunked, I think you'll see a dramatic shift in public perception of compulsory voting," he said.

That number only reflects registered voters who turned out, and although required by law, in recent years voter registration has seen a slight decline, especially among younger Australians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23810381

 

[looks]

Germany, USA and Canada ALL say they want special trade deals with post-Brexit Britain

 

[gimpydog]

Yup. Sour grapes versus the wonky bananas

 

[websaway]

Had a chat today with a friend who voted leave.
Pleasant and open chat.
I asked him why he voted leave.
His reply was that he honestly didn't know which way to vote but as his family were voting leave, he thought he would as well.

This will have happened on both sides.

Perhaps we really need to focus on political education more.

In ancient Greece people who did not vote were regarded as ill. In Australia ( a popular model ), you are fined for not voting in elections.

Perhaps that is something else we could adopt ... a £100 fine if you do not vote, along with vastly improved laws on political campaigning and education.

If it happens on both sides then maybe it just cancels itself out.
Which bit of politics should the education focus on and who should teach it. God help us if it's the expert professors in the universities who get more funding from the left than the right or vice versa.

 

[gimpydog]

Germany, USA and Canada ALL say they want special trade deals with post-Brexit Britain

"It marks a backtrack for [Barack Obama] who previously warned the UK would be at the "back of the queue" for a trade deal in the event of Brexit."

 

[spiderspider]

And lets not forget in November USA go to the polls to elect a new president.

Trump has already been quoted as saying we'll be at the front of the queue for trade agreement. Although if he gets in dollar price may hamper any exports.

 

[Toonz]

You know things are bad when we have to place our faith in Trump.

 

[websaway]

And lets not forget in November USA go to the polls to elect a new president.

Trump has already been quoted as saying we'll be at the front of the queue for trade agreement. Although if he gets in dollar price may hamper any exports.

I would not want to sacrifice my principles to support Trump. Lets hope Clinton wins.

 

[websaway]

You know things are bad when we have to place our faith in Trump.

We don't, we have to place our faith in ourselves.

 

[Edwin]

Why are you genuinely worried and depressed , how will this affect you personally.

It will affect me, my immediate family and many of my friends, in many ways, on a business and personal level.

It should be obvious from what I've posted that I believe the experts. Anyone who does should be worried.

Really sorry, but I'm not going to go into specifics beyond that. Please don't try pushing it, because I won't. Thanks.

 

[VSC]

It's just makes sense in this case though because If you're the mayor of Calais I'm sure the #1 thing you're elected on is saying you will do something about the immigrant crises

So of course when something like this happens you have to say "I'm going to be doing something!" whether you have the power to act or not

But it is not just the Mayor:

"France's economy minister Emmanuel Macron earlier sparked a row when he told the Financial Times his country could end UK border controls in Calais."

 

[VSC]

I thought Article 50 was a fairly recent addition to the Constitution?

Yes, you are right, 2007 I believe (apologies). Prior to that though the UK could legally have left "subject to the situation has changed so drastically, that the obligations of a signatory have been radically transformed.", which even as a remain voter I agree would have been the case.

Nevertheless, since 2007 it is not legally the case that the UK had lost it's sovereignty ... the fact that we are leaving has proven that.