EU Referendum

[Edwin]

Brexit in one picture...
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelh992/status/746672985998790656

 

[Murray]

But the Mayor of Calais disagrees:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

Well the Mayor of Calais has to say that because I'm sure that's the popular hope of the people in Calais

She says herself

Ms Bouchart said: "We are in a strong position to push, to press this request for a review and we are asking the President (Francois Hollande) to bring his weight (to the issue).

"we are asking" because she no power to do anything, but again, she can pander to the people of Calais

 

[VSC]

... and just to prove that I DO have an open mind, this might be good for the ship building industry.
We may need more ships to patrol UK waters to protect against EU fishing boats ...

Just a thought.

 

[Murray]

Brexit in one picture...
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelh992/status/746672985998790656

Edwin, do you not believe in democracy?

 

[VSC]

She says herself

"we are asking" because she no power to do anything, but again, she can pander to the people of Calais

depends what part you wish to quote ... she also said "We are in a strong position to push, to press this request" ... that would seem more than simply asking.

As it has always been throughout the campaign, it is all down to which experts you wish to believe in, what statistics you wish to choose from, and what part of a quote to rehash.

I am simply taking a valid and informed point of view that it is possible for the UK border in France to be closed. Again we don't know, but it IS possible and would have dire consequences for both the UK and the people caught up in it.

 

[Edwin]

Edwin, do you not believe in democracy?

I believe that a larger number of people have won the worse choice of two possible outcomes.

Those two things are independent: democracy gave us the winning scenario, but the majority choosing it did nothing to make it a better choice.

In other words, people had the right to choose. They chose. We know who won. That part was democracy.

Two choices were on offer, a good one and a bad one. That part had nothing to do with democracy.

 

[Murray]

As it has always been throughout the campaign, it is all down to which experts you wish to believe in, what statistics you wish to choose from, and what part of a quote to rehash

It's just makes sense in this case though because If you're the mayor of Calais I'm sure the #1 thing you're elected on is saying you will do something about the immigrant crises

So of course when something like this happens you have to say "I'm going to be doing something!" whether you have the power to act or not

 

[Toonz]

More "fruitcakes" on the right hand side than the left.

A quick one I knocked up.

Oh dear, it's positively wall-to-wall fruit on the left.

 

[spiderspider]

Two choices were on offer, a good one and a bad one. That part had nothing to do with democracy.

Not bitter at all, are you?

 

[Murray]

I believe that a larger number of people have won the worse choice of two possible outcomes.

Those two things are independent: democracy gave us the winning scenario, but the majority choosing it did nothing to make it a better choice.

In other words, people had the right to choose. They chose. We know who won. That part was democracy.

Two choices were on offer, a good one and a bad one. That part had nothing to do with democracy.

Oh I wasn't really asking about the vote itself

My reason for asking is some EU laws trump UK law, in the UK.. how is that acceptable? doesn't that totally go against democracy

 

[Edwin]

Not bitter at all, are you?

Genuinely very worried, and quite depressed. Friends and family too.

 

[VSC]

My reason for asking is some EU laws trump UK law, in the UK.. how is that acceptable? doesn't that totally go against democracy

Not when the UK government agreed to the system which it did.
The issue about the electorate not being involved in the decision is a different thing altogether.
Legally speaking the UK has always kept it's own sovereignty precisely because of Article 50.

 

[Toonz]

Not bitter at all, are you?

It's not Edwin who sounds bitter. He's making perfectly reasonable points.

 

[gimpydog]

Oh dear, it's positively wall-to-wall fruit on the left.

and sour grapes on the right?

 

[websaway]

Genuinely very worried, and quite depressed. Friends and family too.

Why are you genuinely worried and depressed , how will this affect you personally.

 

[Edwin]

Oh I wasn't really asking about the vote itself

My reason for asking is some EU laws trump UK law, in the UK.. how is that acceptable? doesn't that totally go against democracy

No. It's much more nuanced than that, but the headline-friendly "unelected elites" has tended to hide the subtleties.

It is a minor concession, a small loss of some slivver of democracy, in exchange for all sorts of other benefits.

Anyway, that's one thing I'm not going to bother to argue on past this post. It's moot anyway, because it's the rules of a club we're no longer going to be part of.

 

[VSC]

Had a chat today with a friend who voted leave.
Pleasant and open chat.
I asked him why he voted leave.
His reply was that he honestly didn't know which way to vote but as his family were voting leave, he thought he would as well.

This will have happened on both sides.

Perhaps we really need to focus on political education more.

In ancient Greece people who did not vote were regarded as ill. In Australia ( a popular model ), you are fined for not voting in elections.

Perhaps that is something else we could adopt ... a £100 fine if you do not vote, along with vastly improved laws on political campaigning and education.

 

[Toonz]

and sour grapes on the right?

Yup. Sour grapes versus the wonky bananas.

 

[gimpydog]

President Barack Obama stands by his comment that Britain will move to the back of the queue when it comes to trade deals with the United States after Brexit, the White House said on Friday.

So how many in this queue then??

 

[gimpydog]

I thought Article 50 was a fairly recent addition to the Constitution?

2009