EU Referendum

[websaway]

Senior German sources were apparently saying tonight that they value the integrity of the rest of the EU block way more than a potential loss of (some) trade with the UK. If that pans out, then that's the "apocalypse" scenario right there.

I assume the last line of your post is your comment and not the German source. You are so desperate to be right on your predictions you are now using words like apocalypse.

What you are like is the spouse of the abused partner who is so shocked at the spouse leaving that they are sending messages scaring them by telling them how hard life will be , but the abused spouse will reply that it's a price worth paying to be outside the abusive relationship.

You will be right on some things, people accepted when they voted to leave that there would be a short term shock and even possible hardship, but they considered that a price worth paying.

 

[websaway]

That kind of suggests they didn't think through the consequences of a Leave vote.

There was no way in a million years a Remain prime minister would have been willing to implemented a Leave agenda, which is why the electorate were repeatedly warned that a Leave vote was also effectively a vote for Boris, Gove et al.

And because of the Fixed Term Parliaments act and the way the party system works, it was not only inevitable but unstoppable. There was literally no way of voting Leave and getting anyone other than Boris, Gove et al!

Well at least the good people of Newcastle will be able to put a face and a name to who is governing the country, which would not have been the case had they remained.

 

[websaway]

France's Calais seeks border deal changes

And so it begins.

You wish.

 

[AssetDomains]

FYI if you have very very deep pockets, you can buy a passport from Malta (an EU member).
http://www.maltaimmigration.com/

If you have recent Irish ancestry you can always do this

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ate-brexit-eu-referendum-result-34803753.html

Just to be clear this wasn't meant as a dig just pointing out there may be a cheaper way for some remainers to keep an EU passport and be able to freely move around and easily settle in Europe one day if they wished. I know there's Irish heritage on my mums side so I'm going to look into if its a possibility.

 

[websaway]

Does anyone on the Leave camp expect this to "blow over" in a few days or weeks or months?

You've got an entire generation basically feeling disenfranchised by people old enough to have (statistically) done better. Cheap housing, free education, platinum plated pensions by today's standards.

This will run forever...

You have a father and son company. Father and son sit on the board, son wants to sell the company to a bidder meaning he can take his share and live the life of Riley , father does not agree, he wants to keep what he's built, retain and look after the good staff that he's built his business on and around, he is prepared to rise at six, seven days a week to retain his business.. His son is never going to agree, self interest has completely overtaken his outlook for the future, and his inability to appreciate his fathers position.

 

[websaway]

Sums up my position perfectly.

There's a rather splendid Japanese expression, shiri nugui. It means "clean up someone else's mess" but more literally it means "wipe their ahem for them"

That's exactly what Cameron wasn't willing to do for Leave.

I really don't understand that, it's not someone else's mess it's his and Osborn's mess.

 

[Edwin]

For the 48%, this was a day of despair
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/48-britain-regrexit-voted-remaon

I'm not saying you have to agree with it, I promise. But please read it slowly. Several times. Let it really sink in.

Then - and only then - do you have a chance of understanding what the rest of us are feeling.

 

[VSC]

Or maybe it's because the mainstream media only report and push those issues?
And the remain camp used immigration to discredit the leave camp and appeal to the remain camp?
And you could say remainers mainly voted in because of the economy and no other reason?
And you could also say that MP's are corrupt and only acting in self interest?

Media - Both left and right media, leave and remain media commented on the immigration issue. The post referendum interviews I've seen have immigration as a major issue. Yes they are mostly biased (the Independent was the only paper to stay neutral), but even my own experience of talking with leave voters has led me to the point of view that immigration was a major issue - not the main one, I never said that, but one of the top ones.

Remain camp - Nigel Farage and his poster didn't exactly help their point of view.

Remain vote - The remain voters that I talked with would cite the economy, UK safety and security, and being part of a big team is better than standing alone.

MPs - All of them? So you didn't vote in the last general election? If they are all corrupt what do you expect will happen over the next years when they guide the UK out?

 

[Edwin]

I really don't understand that, it's not someone else's mess it's his and Osborn's mess.

Nope. Everything after the polls closed is Leave's mess. The referendum was Cameron's, and he fell on his sword for it.

 

[VSC]

You wish.

Why should a sovereign country have another countries security services and border control in theirs?

 

[VSC]

Can't remember where I read it now, but I believe a LD MP was suggesting that a new pro EU democratic centre-left party be formed ... They'd get some disgruntled labour MPs signing up I bet!

 

[websaway]

For a little bit of context, £250 billion was wiped off the wider stockmarket today. That's money that will have vapourised in large part from pension funds. It's also 25 years worth of EU contributions...

... but I'm so looking forward to reaping the benefits when we Take Back Control.

You really are typical of the academics who know everything. Typical of experts, those that if they could get it right would be working on wall street. You seem to know little about the history of the money markets. There are still exactly the same amount of consumers that their were on the 22nd, the markets position themselves to suit, one mans sell is another mans buy.
If in the unlikely event that underlying value has been affected then it was overpriced anyway. Your negative slant on everything is now becoming very tedious.

Vapourised ? Stocks and shared and currencies rise and fall. Vapourised I think is for the science lab.

I think your rhetoric would impress the young, but be careful what you tell them, it moulds their future thinking and the most important thing for a young person is to be taught to be positive.

 

[martin-s]

Then - and only then - do you have a chance of understanding what the rest of us are feeling.

A black/white vote is always going to leave one side hurting. And in this case, it's a vote where both sides had downsides.

Remaining in and becoming a state in federal Europe felt unconscionable to me, and that's why I voted leave. The way the EU works is not democratic enough - and even if it was more so, the countries involved are too different, emotionally and otherwise.

And yes, the UK in particular. We just don't feel European. We are suspicious of power and wealth. We play Devil's Advocate. We call bull$hit. We challenge the status quo, and look for what's right.

Some power-holders in the EU are realising that this might be the end of the EU as we know it, because it's not what the people want. The others want to forge ahead, and do "more Europe".

Punishing us and making us fearful because we wanted something different is why remain lost this vote. The quote today about Brits holding their nerve and trusting their instincts is what gets to the heart of it. We trusted our gut,

Once the shit$torm is out of the way, we'll be fine - and stronger for making the brave move.

Brits should be applauded for having faith in ourselves.

 

[websaway]

Why should a sovereign country have another countries security services and border control in theirs?

Trade offs.

 

[martin-s]

You are personally ruining this forum.

If you feel that way, please use the ignore button rather than vent. Otherwise it's just trolling.

 

[VSC]

Trade offs.

So you want France to act for the ultimate benefit of the UK while telling France that their citizens will no longer be able to travel freely in the UK? Why? There is no benefit to France to keep the border there, infact it has caused nothing but problems for France.

I really hope that the future is positive ... but the EU rightly has to look after itself first. If that means that the UK suffers, well so be it. We are acting in exactly the same way, let's think of the UK first and only. Why expect other countries to behave any differently. The "Great" in Great Britain is just a word, not an inference of power.

The debate prior to the vote was saying that the EU needs UK trade - alongside leave campaigners saying that we did not need EU trade ... you can't have it both ways.

The EU may feel the same and look for new outlets for their own exports and reduce the demand of UK products by making trade deals with other countries.

We just do not know ... we ALL have to wait now and see.

 

[spiderspider]

Otherwise it's just trolling.

@admin really should put his personal views to one side (he was a remainer to, although not lived in UK for nearly 10 years) and start to moderate and cut all the crap that is being posted.

 

[VSC]

Constantly trying to make his aerguments work. Rather than shut up, he keeps banging on.

We live in a democracy.
We all have the right to debate.
We ALL (all sides of the debate) use the evidence we choose to believe to express our point of view.

Surely stating that someone does not have the right to comment is going against what you wanted by voting leave - the belief that the UK was not in control of it's own democracy and that the electorate did not have a voice?

You cannot silence people who disagree with you.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Are you suggesting the rise of the National Front is a good thing? Didn't you say you were centre-left?

I am. And I'm talking about their trade protection and their labour reform demos. 1 million people took to the streets the last couple of weeks.

I admire the French for how they stand up and be counted for their beliefs and their rights.

Yesterday through the course of my work I spoke to people in The Netherlands, France, Spain and an Italian living in France. To a person they all want a referendum....they wouldn't say that if they want to remain.

 

[Edwin]

I genuinely feel many/most on the Leave camp -- talking only about the politicians campaigning** -- had no expectation whatsoever of winning, but people like Johnson and Gove saw the exciting career-advancing possibility of being seen on the "other side of the argument" when it came to edging out David Cameron come 2019.

That would explain the rabbit-in-headlights look so many of them seem to have in the avalanche of interviews they've taken part in over the last few days. They have quite literally no idea what comes next, and have come grudgingly but rapidly to the realisation that those on the losing side didn't have any answers either because to them the argument was so one-sided as to make the prospect of losing unthinkable and therefore unworthy of contemplation.

(**Nigel Farage is a notable exception, of course.)