EU Referendum

[websaway]

Probably the funniest bit of this whole referendum is seeing all those towns, which have no immigrants, to vote against immigrants. London has most amount of EU immigrants, and yet they voted to remain in EU.

Yes they need the gardeners and maids.

 

[Toonz]

Should always listen to the experts about what's wrong with the country.
who are the experts ? the electorate.

Na. All a bit Trump for my liking. Still, if it makes you feel better about yourselves, carry on.

 

[websaway]

I thought the remaining remainers might like the last word from Katie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...in-stood-proud-tall-reclaimed-birthright.html

 

[grandwizard]

The Leave campaign will have to explain how they are going to reduce all the LEGAL Migration. The Australian points system doesn't seem to apply to marriages and children born on foreign soil by foreign residents. Not sure they can say for e.g sorry mate you can't marry that Albanian woman she hasn't got enough points or you can't bring your kids over if they are not British but you live here. The remain campaign is right immigration is a complex issue. Meet the new Boss same as the old one I have a strong feeling freedom of movement might just be a concession for the UK maintaining access to the single market.

 

[denchomsky]

Probably the funniest bit of this whole referendum is seeing all those towns, which have no immigrants, to vote against immigrants. London has most amount of EU immigrants, and yet they voted to remain in EU.

Once again someone 'presuming' that's the only reason why people voted out. Just makes you sound ignorant.

 

[VSC]

Should always listen to the experts about what's wrong with the country.
who are the experts ? the electorate.

While the electorate are not stupid, many people will respond emotionally and seek what they see as simple solutions to complex problems.

Many of the electorate were/are concerned about immigration, so it seemed simple to just leave the EU and stop the EU migrants. The fact is that most EU migrants are working people, contributing to the economy. People blame them for taking jobs ... but the jobs have been there for UK citizens should they want them - we have the living wage, so working for low wages taking jobs away from UK citizens cannot be an issue (and if it is, it is the UK employers at fault).

Yes, there were other issues, but the evidence does seem to point to immigration and less for sovereignty being the main leave vote issue.

We vote in MPs to decide on issues on our behalf. The majority of MPs voted to remain. Perhaps that means that they were not responding so emotionally, but were seeing a bigger picture, and overall future.

I would imagine that if we had a spate of horrific murders, then had a referendum on hanging, many people would vote emotionally and vote for hanging. Have that vote at a different time, and you would get a different outcome.

If we had held the referendum say in 2 years, after the concessions that Cameron got from the EU had been enacted and had time to see the results, the referendum result may have been different.

Who knows. Whatever ... we are leaving, and we all have to do our best to move forward.

 

[websaway]

Na. All a bit Trump for my liking. Still, if it makes you feel better about yourselves, carry on.

It is right that our democracy has been rescued by the most democratic shock in our history.
Having giving it thought , I think this is one of our finest hours. I think of all those people who, against all the selfish advise by the elite, had the courage to stand up to the establishment.
It reminds me of the American declaration of independence. Triumph over fear. How big a country are we that we have done this, seeing the dangers of joining the Euro, seeing the dangers of joining the Schengen zone, and seeing the intended attempt to guide us into am undemocratic united states of Europe.

 

[denchomsky]

While the electorate are not stupid, many people will respond emotionally and seek what they see as simple solutions to complex problems.

Yes, there were other issues, but the evidence does seem to point to immigration and less for sovereignty being the main leave vote issue.

We vote in MPs to decide on issues on our behalf. The majority of MPs voted to remain. Perhaps that means that they were not responding so emotionally, but were seeing a bigger picture, and overall future.

.

Or maybe it's because the mainstream media only report and push those issues?
And the remain camp used immigration to discredit the leave camp and appeal to the remain camp?
And you could say remainers mainly voted in because of the economy and no other reason?
And you could also say that MP's are corrupt and only acting in self interest?

 

[looks]

Saw that earlier, would be crazy to see this happen and then Scotland and NI to follow the pattern. Quality of life will probably go further down after Brexit. Nationalism is winning, rational and progressive thinking is failing.

I cant ever see NI leaving, they are very proud and loyal people. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...and-martin-mcguinness-border-poll-wont-happen

 

[websaway]

While the electorate are not stupid, many people will respond emotionally and seek what they see as simple solutions to complex problems.

Many of the electorate were/are concerned about immigration, so it seemed simple to just leave the EU and stop the EU migrants. The fact is that most EU migrants are working people, contributing to the economy. People blame them for taking jobs ... but the jobs have been there for UK citizens should they want them - we have the living wage, so working for low wages taking jobs away from UK citizens cannot be an issue (and if it is, it is the UK employers at fault).

Yes, there were other issues, but the evidence does seem to point to immigration and less for sovereignty being the main leave vote issue.

We vote in MPs to decide on issues on our behalf. The majority of MPs voted to remain. Perhaps that means that they were not responding so emotionally, but were seeing a bigger picture, and overall future.

I would imagine that if we had a spate of horrific murders, then had a referendum on hanging, many people would vote emotionally and vote for hanging. Have that vote at a different time, and you would get a different outcome.

If we had held the referendum say in 2 years, after the concessions that Cameron got from the EU had been enacted and had time to see the results, the referendum result may have been different.

Who knows. Whatever ... we are leaving, and we all have to do our best to move forward.

It was, I agree, about immigration, but not immigrants. It was about immigration policy. Free movement of people is intended for people to come and go from one place to another, either for work or education.
It was not intended to relocate millions of economic migrants from all over Europe to the strongest economy. The better you do through either hard work or sacrifice, the more attractive you become. Equally different UK regions are more attractive to migrants, so areas quickly lose their identity. Now I think we could live with the past, but the vision of a future where people simply streamed in year on year affected too many people. Uncontrolled immigration for a country with limited space was a ludicrous project.
So not immigrants but immigration.

 

[Edwin]

The Leave campaign will have to explain how they are going to reduce all the LEGAL Migration. The Australian points system doesn't seem to apply to marriages and children born on foreign soil by foreign residents. Not sure they can say for e.g sorry mate you can't marry that Albanian woman she hasn't got enough points or you can't bring your kids over if they are not British but you live here. The remain campaign is right immigration is a complex issue. Meet the new Boss same as the old one I have a strong feeling freedom of movement might just be a concession for the UK maintaining access to the single market.

A number of Leave campaigners have explicitly stated today that immigration may very well not fall, and that furthermore they never promised to reduce it but only "control"' it.

 

[looks]

A number of Leave campaigners have explicitly stated today that immigration may very well not fall, and that furthermore they never promised to reduce it but only "control"' it.

Control works for me. How many and from where they come from. I would like to see closer relationships with members of the commonwealth.

 

[Edwin]

Control works for me. How many and from where they come from. I would like to see closer relationships with members of the commonwealth.

The point being made during the interview was that many Leave voters would have done so in an expectation of a reduction in immigration - the difference between that and "control" being too nuanced.

 

[websaway]

Can anyone see Andrea Leadsom as PM ?

 

[websaway]

The point being made during the interview was that many Leave voters would have done so in an expectation of a reduction in immigration - the difference between that and "control" being too nuanced.

I think that's just your failure to connect with the real feelings of the Brexiters during the campaign. If you think it's racism then you look no deeper, you were not even willing to address the fears about immigration ( not immigrants ). Your self interest was and still is economics.

 

[Mark84]

The point being made during the interview was that many Leave voters would have done so in an expectation of a reduction in immigration - the difference between that and "control" being too nuanced.

The point for me as a leaver was always one thing, I would get whatever I voted for at the next election after the referendum. The referendum was not about immigration going up and down the day after.

If one party says unlimited immigration is the way forward and they get voted in on it then that's ok. If someone stands on a zero immigration manifesto and gets elected then that's ok.

What I know is, someone isn't going to be saying 50 thousand migrants a year and then 500k turn up and then try and blame the Eu

If they don't deliver, they will be out in the election after.

That's all this was ever about, holding people go account at general elections.

 

[Edwin]

I think that's just your failure to connect with the real feelings of the Brexiters during the campaign. If you think it's racism then you look no deeper, you were not even willing to address the fears about immigration ( not immigrants ). Your self interest was and still is economics.

No. It's me explaining an interview I watched. I didn't add any of my own interpretation to it.

 

[websaway]

A number of Leave campaigners have explicitly stated today that immigration may very well not fall, and that furthermore they never promised to reduce it but only "control"' it.

So yes it is about control, you perhaps didn't pick up on that during the campaign, probably because you thought people who were concerned about uncontrolled immigration were racist.

 

[grandwizard]

It is clear the Leave campaign are winging it and should have had a plan ready to go. The delay to Invoke Article 50 creates uncertainty on both ends. It's Like deciding to Leave a Company and saying to the Company I need to sort out some issues at home before handing in my notice but I am definitely resigning.! Its okay to say "we will be fine" but that is not a PLAN. If you really think about it immigration may rise short term as some Europeans might think we better get in now before any rule changes and furthermore anyone here at the time of our exit will be grandfathered into new Laws.

 

[looks]

It is clear the Leave campaign are winging it and should have had a plan ready to go. The delay to Invoke Article 50 creates uncertainty on both ends. It's Like deciding to Leave a Company and saying to the Company I need to sort out some issues at home before handing in my notice but I am definitely resigning.! Its okay to say "we will be fine" but that is not a PLAN. If you really think about it immigration may rise short term as some Europeans might think we better get in now before any rule changes and furthermore anyone here at the time of our exit will be grandfathered into new Laws.

Mr Cameron resigned as Prime Minister shortly after 8am, announcing that he thinks Britain should have a new Prime Minister in place by the start of the Conservative conference in October. He will leave the task of triggering Article 50 to his successor.