EU Referendum

[looks]

Saw that earlier, would be crazy to see this happen and then Scotland and NI to follow the pattern. Quality of life will probably go further down after Brexit. Nationalism is winning, rational and progressive thinking is failing.

I cant ever see NI leaving, they are very proud and loyal people. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...and-martin-mcguinness-border-poll-wont-happen

 

[websaway]

While the electorate are not stupid, many people will respond emotionally and seek what they see as simple solutions to complex problems.

Many of the electorate were/are concerned about immigration, so it seemed simple to just leave the EU and stop the EU migrants. The fact is that most EU migrants are working people, contributing to the economy. People blame them for taking jobs ... but the jobs have been there for UK citizens should they want them - we have the living wage, so working for low wages taking jobs away from UK citizens cannot be an issue (and if it is, it is the UK employers at fault).

Yes, there were other issues, but the evidence does seem to point to immigration and less for sovereignty being the main leave vote issue.

We vote in MPs to decide on issues on our behalf. The majority of MPs voted to remain. Perhaps that means that they were not responding so emotionally, but were seeing a bigger picture, and overall future.

I would imagine that if we had a spate of horrific murders, then had a referendum on hanging, many people would vote emotionally and vote for hanging. Have that vote at a different time, and you would get a different outcome.

If we had held the referendum say in 2 years, after the concessions that Cameron got from the EU had been enacted and had time to see the results, the referendum result may have been different.

Who knows. Whatever ... we are leaving, and we all have to do our best to move forward.

It was, I agree, about immigration, but not immigrants. It was about immigration policy. Free movement of people is intended for people to come and go from one place to another, either for work or education.
It was not intended to relocate millions of economic migrants from all over Europe to the strongest economy. The better you do through either hard work or sacrifice, the more attractive you become. Equally different UK regions are more attractive to migrants, so areas quickly lose their identity. Now I think we could live with the past, but the vision of a future where people simply streamed in year on year affected too many people. Uncontrolled immigration for a country with limited space was a ludicrous project.
So not immigrants but immigration.

 

[Edwin]

The Leave campaign will have to explain how they are going to reduce all the LEGAL Migration. The Australian points system doesn't seem to apply to marriages and children born on foreign soil by foreign residents. Not sure they can say for e.g sorry mate you can't marry that Albanian woman she hasn't got enough points or you can't bring your kids over if they are not British but you live here. The remain campaign is right immigration is a complex issue. Meet the new Boss same as the old one I have a strong feeling freedom of movement might just be a concession for the UK maintaining access to the single market.

A number of Leave campaigners have explicitly stated today that immigration may very well not fall, and that furthermore they never promised to reduce it but only "control"' it.

 

[looks]

A number of Leave campaigners have explicitly stated today that immigration may very well not fall, and that furthermore they never promised to reduce it but only "control"' it.

Control works for me. How many and from where they come from. I would like to see closer relationships with members of the commonwealth.

 

[Edwin]

Control works for me. How many and from where they come from. I would like to see closer relationships with members of the commonwealth.

The point being made during the interview was that many Leave voters would have done so in an expectation of a reduction in immigration - the difference between that and "control" being too nuanced.

 

[websaway]

Can anyone see Andrea Leadsom as PM ?

 

[websaway]

The point being made during the interview was that many Leave voters would have done so in an expectation of a reduction in immigration - the difference between that and "control" being too nuanced.

I think that's just your failure to connect with the real feelings of the Brexiters during the campaign. If you think it's racism then you look no deeper, you were not even willing to address the fears about immigration ( not immigrants ). Your self interest was and still is economics.

 

[Mark84]

The point being made during the interview was that many Leave voters would have done so in an expectation of a reduction in immigration - the difference between that and "control" being too nuanced.

The point for me as a leaver was always one thing, I would get whatever I voted for at the next election after the referendum. The referendum was not about immigration going up and down the day after.

If one party says unlimited immigration is the way forward and they get voted in on it then that's ok. If someone stands on a zero immigration manifesto and gets elected then that's ok.

What I know is, someone isn't going to be saying 50 thousand migrants a year and then 500k turn up and then try and blame the Eu

If they don't deliver, they will be out in the election after.

That's all this was ever about, holding people go account at general elections.

 

[Edwin]

I think that's just your failure to connect with the real feelings of the Brexiters during the campaign. If you think it's racism then you look no deeper, you were not even willing to address the fears about immigration ( not immigrants ). Your self interest was and still is economics.

No. It's me explaining an interview I watched. I didn't add any of my own interpretation to it.

 

[websaway]

A number of Leave campaigners have explicitly stated today that immigration may very well not fall, and that furthermore they never promised to reduce it but only "control"' it.

So yes it is about control, you perhaps didn't pick up on that during the campaign, probably because you thought people who were concerned about uncontrolled immigration were racist.

 

[grandwizard]

It is clear the Leave campaign are winging it and should have had a plan ready to go. The delay to Invoke Article 50 creates uncertainty on both ends. It's Like deciding to Leave a Company and saying to the Company I need to sort out some issues at home before handing in my notice but I am definitely resigning.! Its okay to say "we will be fine" but that is not a PLAN. If you really think about it immigration may rise short term as some Europeans might think we better get in now before any rule changes and furthermore anyone here at the time of our exit will be grandfathered into new Laws.

 

[looks]

It is clear the Leave campaign are winging it and should have had a plan ready to go. The delay to Invoke Article 50 creates uncertainty on both ends. It's Like deciding to Leave a Company and saying to the Company I need to sort out some issues at home before handing in my notice but I am definitely resigning.! Its okay to say "we will be fine" but that is not a PLAN. If you really think about it immigration may rise short term as some Europeans might think we better get in now before any rule changes and furthermore anyone here at the time of our exit will be grandfathered into new Laws.

Mr Cameron resigned as Prime Minister shortly after 8am, announcing that he thinks Britain should have a new Prime Minister in place by the start of the Conservative conference in October. He will leave the task of triggering Article 50 to his successor.

 

[websaway]

It is clear the Leave campaign are winging it and should have had a plan ready to go. The delay to Invoke Article 50 creates uncertainty on both ends. It's Like deciding to Leave a Company and saying to the Company I need to sort out some issues at home before handing in my notice but I am definitely resigning.! Its okay to say "we will be fine" but that is not a PLAN. If you really think about it immigration may rise short term as some Europeans might think we better get in now before any rule changes and furthermore anyone here at the time of our exit will be grandfathered into new Laws.

#
Yes, ideally the PM should have said from outset, we will lay out the facts in a level and controlled manner and let the people decide. If we leave this is our plan. So it's not the Brexiters who have not got a plan, it's the government.

 

[bonusmedia]

Congratulations to the leave campaign. May the far right bring you all you've ever dreamed of.
The irony of posters depicting Merkel as a Nazi is perhaps beyond you.

 

[grandwizard]

So yes it is about control, you perhaps didn't pick up on that during the campaign, probably because you thought people who were concerned about uncontrolled immigration were racist.

Most of the movement we have from the EU is "Migration" not "Immigration" this happens both ways. But I'm afraid leavers have voted for something that will never happen "A reduction in immigration" to the tens of thousands. Urmm Non EU immigration is at 180,000 Plus. The Entire population of EU nationals in the UK are around 5% people have voted with Fear, A fear that shouldn't exist and only exists in ones way of thinking , A fear not based on facts but manifested through emotion! and when you make decisions based on emotions you are not critically thinking!.

 

[looks]

Congratulations to the leave campaign. May the far right bring you all you've ever dreamed of.
The irony of posters depicting Merkel as a Nazi is perhaps beyond you.

 

[Edwin]

#
Yes, ideally the PM should have said from outset, we will lay out the facts in a level and controlled manner and let the people decide. If we leave this is our plan. So it's not the Brexiters who have not got a plan, it's the government.

That's ridiculous. How can someone simultaneously plan for something they see as so super-destructive they spend every waking moment warning against it?

The result last night was achieved by the Leave campaign. The fall-out is entirely theirs to deal with too. They have provided countless assurances that things will be great - experts be damned - so it's time for the whole country, Leave and Remain camps, to hold them to their statements.

They are the ones to deservedly reap the plaudits should everything go swimmingly.

But if, as many fear, everything goes to pot, then it behooves all of us to remember EXACTLY who was responsible: Johnson, Gove, Grayling, Farage, Duncan Smith, Patel, Redwood, Lawson, Lamont, Rees-Mogg and the rest of the gang.

When you consider how people hold the Lib Dems accountable for their "betrayal" on tuition fees... Well, many, many, many people will not forget being betrayed by a small clique of know-nothing, expert-mocking liars into voting for the death of the UK.

For everyone's sake, I so desperately hope the experts are wrong. But I fear they're not.

Time will tell - perhaps less time than we think!

 

[bonusmedia]

It must take some serious mental gymnastics to go from explicitly stating a need to reduce migration one minute to saying you never meant that anyway the next.

Did enjoy a moment of levity as Boris announced he was proud of us being the 5th largest economy just as we dropped down to 6th.

Those who think the FTSE drop wasn't too bad might like to try denominating it in dollars - the Americans have had a field day buying up our distressed assets

 

[grandwizard]

If the Leave campaign was serious they would have had Pre exit discussions and had a plan in place. Every Leave campaigner today have said lets wait a few months and have informal discussions now, oh the markets will be happy to wait right investors love uncertainty. Nigel almost conceded defeat before the count! they didn't campaign to win It reminds me of Donald Trump . Trump runs to boost his image and accidentally wins and now he is like oops I won what do I do now I better start having real plans instead of repeating "we will bring jobs back" as if just repeating that is a plan in itself.

 

[bonusmedia]

Remind me how many jobs you're responsible for?