EU Referendum

websaway · Jun 24, 2016

Toonz said:
You're being misleading because it's been obvious for a while that the EU vote would be extremely close and could easily have gone either way (I said so myself), whereas Corbyn and electoral success are miles apart as shown in last year's elections as well as in the vast gulf between his positions (immigration, benefits, Trident) and the beliefs of the country at large.

Edwin said:
Thanks, that was really interesting.

I was genuinely shocked to see so many Vote Leavers still repeating the "take back control" line in interviews today. Almost as if they didn't realise (or didn't believe) that their camp had won! There were no hard answers coming from them on anything at all - which is immensely worrying since many of them are going to be the ones in charge of steering the unwieldy ship of state away from the rocks.

This Guardian editorial is, I think, also worth a read.

The Guardian view on the EU referendum: the vote is in, now we must face the consequences
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-vote-is-in-now-we-must-face-the-consequences

The situation is now that the remainers will talk about the consequences of leaving. They will ignore the consequences of remaining. Over half the electorate have spoken . We have had an out vote, in is not an alternative, we are once again a sovereign nation and the majority of the electorate did not agree with your desired destination.
The ship has turned and is heading in a different direction , welcome aboard.

BREWSTERS · Jun 24, 2016

It's become obvious that the two main parties cannot be trusted to deliver a smooth transition, or to work in the best interests of us all...because their hearts aren't in it.
Politicians have big egos, and (perhaps subconsciously) they will want to be able to say 'told you so'. And they can only say that if they make a bad job of it. They have no incentive to do the best they can.
Ever heard a politician say 'you were right, I was wrong'?
Neither have I.

Toonz · Jun 24, 2016

websaway said:
The situation is now that the remainers will talk about the consequences of leaving. They will ignore the consequences of remaining. Over half the electorate have spoken . We have had an out vote, in is not an alternative, we are once again a sovereign nation and the majority of the electorate did not agree with your desired destination.
The ship has turned and is heading in a different direction , welcome aboard.

What has this got to do with the post of mine that you quoted?

Toonz · Jun 24, 2016

BREWSTERS said:
Politicians have big egos, and (perhaps subconsciously) they will want to be able to say 'told you so'.

They're not the only ones.

Toonz · Jun 24, 2016

BREWSTERS said:
Ever heard a politician say 'you were right, I was wrong'?

I have. But then I do my best to avoid confirmation bias.

VSC · Jun 24, 2016

websaway said:
The situation is now that the remainers will talk about the consequences of leaving. They will ignore the consequences of remaining. Over half the electorate have spoken . We have had an out vote, in is not an alternative, we are once again a sovereign nation and the majority of the electorate did not agree with your desired destination.
The ship has turned and is heading in a different direction , welcome aboard.

The fact is, we are leaving so they are they only real consequences that can be discussed. It is not a question of ignoring the consequences of remaining as now no one can say what they would have been - it is only conjecture.

As a member of the electorate who voted (one of the 48%), I/we still have the right to comment and have our voices heard, just as if the result had been the other way around, the leave voters would have had.

Yes, the "ship has turned", but we are still on board.

websaway · Jun 24, 2016

Edwin said:
I can't believe that some of you Leave camp folk, even after scoring a definitive victory, still feel obliged to resort to personal attacks in your responses to me!

Snap out of it. Discuss the TOPIC or stay out. But there shouldn't be any statements referencing ME.

I simply can not believe you are still trying to justify the scaremongering of the leave campaign. It undermines your intelligence. The topic you are referring to is history.
The experts as they are described, over exaggerated the leave scenario.
The electorate did not like uncontrolled immigration and loss of sovereignty.
I don't know which bit of the country did not want to trade off it's independence, you don't understand.
And what the government did not understand is that John and Mary in Hartlepool do not give a damn if the stock market drops or the pound goes down, like millions of others, they could not be any worse off than they are now.
And just to confirm, 75% of young people voted in, and still didn't win.
They won't know for a number of years how wrong they were.

Edwin said:
That's more than a little unfair, no matter what your political inclination.

He has worn himself out criss-crossing the country over the last few months warning of the perils of brexit. His warnings have been loud, specific, clear.

We are only about 9 hours into a "definitive" brexit environment, and already many of the warnings have come true:
- Scotland renewing calls for independence
- Northern Ireland making independence rumblings
- Economic turmoil
- Job losses (again, remember we're only 9 hours in and already cuts of several thousand positions have been announced!)
- etc. etc.

It is therefore utterly unsurprising, and indeed quite understandable, for him to be unwilling to clean up this impossible mess that he poured so much energy and passion into warning the country against in the first place.

You and the MP were and are ignoring the consequences of remaining.
72% of the electorate turned out and 17,410,742 did not agree with the PM and that's unusual.

Toonz · Jun 24, 2016

VSC said:
The fact is, we are leaving so they are they only real consequences that can be discussed. It is not a question of ignoring the consequences of remaining as now no one can say what they would have been - it is only conjecture.

As a member of the electorate who voted (one of the 48%), I/we still have the right to comment and have our voices heard, just as if the result had been the other way around, the leave voters would have had.

Yes, the "ship has turned", but we are still on board.

I think they're worried we'll be holding them responsible!

websaway · Jun 24, 2016

VSC said:
The fact is, we are leaving so they are they only real consequences that can be discussed. It is not a question of ignoring the consequences of remaining as now no one can say what they would have been - it is only conjecture.

As a member of the electorate who voted (one of the 48%), I/we still have the right to comment and have our voices heard, just as if the result had been the other way around, the leave voters would have had.

Yes, the "ship has turned", but we are still on board.

Yes , good stuff.

zehrila · Jun 24, 2016

Why we may remain in the EU. The referendum is not binding and the result does not constitute a final irrevocable decision either way. http://www.standard.co.uk/business/...ay-remain-even-if-we-vote-leave-a3272621.html

Toonz · Jun 24, 2016

zehrila said:
Why we may remain in the EU. The referendum is not binding and the result does not constitute a final irrevocable decision either way. http://www.standard.co.uk/business/...ay-remain-even-if-we-vote-leave-a3272621.html

It might not be legally binding but it would be political suicide to keep us in the EU and I think every politician will know that. Even I - as a remainer -wouldn't want them to go back on their word after the people voted to come out.

spiderspider · Jun 24, 2016

Edwin said:
I can't believe that some of you Leave camp folk, even after scoring a definitive victory, still feel obliged to resort to personal attacks in your responses to me!

Snap out of it. Discuss the TOPIC or stay out. But there shouldn't be any statements referencing ME.

I would answer this, but @websaway summed it up really well

Adam H · Jun 24, 2016

https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan-declare-london-independent-from-the-uk-and-apply-to-join-the-eu

zehrila · Jun 24, 2016

Adam H said:
https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan-declare-london-independent-from-the-uk-and-apply-to-join-the-eu

Saw that earlier, would be crazy to see this happen and then Scotland and NI to follow the pattern. Quality of life will probably go further down after Brexit. Nationalism is winning, rational and progressive thinking is failing.

grandwizard · Jun 24, 2016

Even the Leave campaign are not in a hurry to Leave

I don't really think Boris and Nigel ever thought the Leave campaign had a chance. No plans to leave, No plans to move forward, No idea where we are heading, it is not a surprise invoking article 50 has been placed on hold. 81 percent of the UK population are indigenous white British, the Black population about 3% , Asian 7%, EU nationals 5% illegals less than 1% maybe slightly more other 4% Now even if you immediately deported half the EU nationals the population will still be quite high, I have met people in my area who think somehow voting out will bring immigration down as a whole. This will Not happen, Most of the migration is LEGAL , people marrying other nationals, foreign born citizens , investors moving businesses and staff etc I live in a small town with hardly any EU migrants but the number one issue here is immigration "Fear nothing but Fear itself I guess.

Toonz · Jun 24, 2016

Not all people who voted Brexit were stupid - but all stupid people voted Brexit.*

*Forget evidence and polls to demonstrate that - we're in the post-expert age now

gimpydog · Jun 24, 2016

spiderspider said:

Better with music...

Can you do a poster for this?...

zehrila · Jun 24, 2016

Probably the funniest bit of this whole referendum is seeing all those towns, which have no immigrants, to vote against immigrants. London has most amount of EU immigrants, and yet they voted to remain in EU.

gimpydog · Jun 24, 2016

zehrila said:
Probably the funniest bit of this whole referendum is seeing all those towns, which have no immigrants, to vote against immigrants. London has most amount of EU immigrants, and yet they voted to remain in EU.

Not many in Scotland. Why do you think that is?

websaway · Jun 24, 2016

Toonz said:
I think they're worried we'll be holding them responsible!

Toonz said:
Not all people who voted Brexit were stupid - but all stupid people voted Brexit.*

*Forget evidence and polls to demonstrate that - we're in the post-expert age now

Should always listen to the experts about what's wrong with the country.
who are the experts ? the electorate.