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Corona please read very important

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What I don't like is that the Government is going round saying it will be 12 weeks and we could have it licked.

OK, why then have you just put a bill through Parliament for some serious powers that curtails our rights for 24 months?

That doesn't add up
 
What I don't like is that the Government is going round saying it will be 12 weeks and we could have it licked.

OK, why then have you just put a bill through Parliament for some serious powers that curtails our rights for 24 months?

That doesn't add up

In the press conference today Boris said 12 weeks until the "tide turns" which I interpreted as reaching the peak and the numbers start decreasing, not having it licked.
 
In the press conference today Boris said 12 weeks until the "tide turns" which I interpreted as reaching the peak and the numbers start decreasing, not having it licked.

Just caught a bit on the news, you are right, I may have misheard. If 24 weeks is the figure he is saying, he's either misleading us on that or he is misleading us on the other. He's asking for some reaching powers for 104 weeks, and no politicians are asking him what he he needs it for and why it can't be nodded through again every 6 months if needed.

I just hope we don't see it being abused like the US did with the things they pushed through in emergencies.
 
On the topics of schools closing, I just read something that made me realise I was looking at it from quite a privileged position
Everyone here is privileged, spending thousands on domains. We are not representative of the majority of people

Best way would be to put money in people's bank accounts, they could reverse the tax system. pay people 50% of their last taxable wage.
Universal Basic Income would probably be quicker to deploy and be easier on the budget. 50% of some salaries would be a lot of money and those people probably won't even need it, though they should still get it. That's the beauty of UBI
 
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I get what your saying, buts thats also kind of the point. Its pretty likely that almost EVERYONE will get this. There is no immunity and its highly contagious. I think the whole point is so that the NHS doesnt get overwhelmed with all the old, infirm and people at risk getting hit with it at once, and hence theyll be able to save a lot more lives.

Thats why its a tank to swat a fly. If they dont get the tank out , the fly will infect everyone very very quickly. Kids will be fine, most people will get mild symptoms but the people at risk will get totally banjoed by it and there are thousands upon thousands in that group.

I'm not saying it...Bloomberg is saying it.

If you know any different regarding the figures, show how.

Despite what someone has purported, the only people to have died that have a link to CV, have already been very ill from other diseases. And (if anyone actually watched the video I put up a couple of times that mentions a multi-year test into CV...in Glasgow too...my partner is a Sister at a large hospital near there...as of last night they had 23 cases of CV...all of which were already patients on the ICU with other conditions) EDIT: should be 23 people in the ICU were being tested for CV due to their existing conditions. you'll know that there are a fair percentage of people throughout the populace that would test positive for CV for many years going back. It's not uncommon at all.

It's mind blowing that you all seem to think that this is such a massive threat. Where are your figures to back it up? Give some numbers. The numbers don't support the reaction in any way at all. If anyone thinks they do, put your neck on the line instead of just disliking a post (actual numbers please...not guestimates or computer models).

Last year 26,000 people in England died of flu. Maybe 7.8m would've tested positive for CV last year. But no-one knows because no-one gave a s**t then. Be honest, who knew about it? None of us. But now everyone is an expert and has an opinion.

I can't wait to see how many dislikes this post gets...compared to the number of sensible, reasoned replies.

Do you know what's funny about this? I'm a member of a certain Italian motorbike forum...and the opinions on there (membership is many times larger than here, due to the size of that market) are the polar opposite of here. Go figure.
 
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I'm not saying it...Bloomberg is saying it.

If you know any different regarding the figures, show how.

Despite what someone has purported, the only people to have died that have a link to CV, have already been very ill from other diseases. And (if anyone actually watched the video I put up a couple of times that mentions a multi-year test into CV...in Glasgow too...my partner is a Sister at a large hospital near there...as of last night they had 23 cases of CV...all of which were already patients on the ICU with other conditions) you'll know that there are a fair percentage of people throughout the populace that would test positive for CV for many years going back. It's not uncommon at all.

It's mind blowing that you all seem to think that this is such a massive threat. Where are your figures to back it up? Give some numbers. The numbers don't support the reaction in any way at all. If anyone thinks they do, put your neck on the line instead of just disliking a post (actual numbers please...not guestimates or computer models).

Last year 26,000 people in England died of flu. Maybe 7.8m would've tested positive for CV last year. But no-one knows because no-one gave a s**t then. Be honest, who knew about it? None of us. But now everyone is an expert and has an opinion.

I can't wait to see how many dislikes this post gets...compared to the number of sensible, reasoned replies.

Do you know what's funny about this? I'm a member of a certain Italian motorbike forum...and the opinions on there (membership is many times larger than here, due to the size of that market) are the polar opposite of here. Go figure.

Unfortunately I'm starting to think something is a miss here. Either this is very very nasty and they ain't saying, or there is not an issue other than a media hype. The figures say one thing, but those Politicians look worried about something.

Wouldn't it be funny if it was somekind of scene from Die Hard 3, where they got everyone off the streets then raided the central banks for gold :eek:

I don't know what the truth is but this doesn't feel right.
 
I think we have to take the news from Italy serious. This is a prosperous country with one of the best healthcare systems in the world. The army is now being used to transport bodies because the crematoriums can't cope. This is no normal flu, and we are following (maybe exceeding) their death rate curve. Our government sat around doing too little for too long, and it is going to cost a lot of lives. As others have said, a lot of the victims would have led active, long lives, if it were not for contracting coronavirus.
 
I think we have to take the news from Italy serious. This is a prosperous country with one of the best healthcare systems in the world. The army is now being used to transport bodies because the crematoriums can't cope. This is no normal flu, and we are following (maybe exceeding) their death rate curve. Our government sat around doing too little for too long, and it is going to cost a lot of lives. As others have said, a lot of the victims would have led active, long lives, if it were not for contracting coronavirus.

On the other hand Germany has something like 10,000 cases with 20 deaths. I'm not sure how to begin to explain that.
 
They have a higher number of ventilators!

I grant you I don't know, just asking out loud. If it is mostly down to ventilators, it wouldn't alone explain why we in the UK have 140'ish deaths from 3200 cases unless we are out of ventilators already.

Just something strange in the numbers
 
...Despite what someone has purported, the only people to have died that have a link to CV, have already been very ill from other diseases...

...in Glasgow too...my partner is a Sister at a large hospital near there...as of last night they had 23 cases of CV...all of which were already patients on the ICU with other conditions...

Your use of 'very' is wrong here. People with underlying medical conditions cover as much of a broad spectrum as any other distribution, and those who have died were certainly not all very ill.

Worse than that, your use of 'the only people' is a clear indication that you are not grasping the issue here. Those 'only people' are succumbing under circumstances where, in any other year, they would not. Many would probably have been able to cope with 'normal' flu etc, just like you or I. It's the added lethal effects of Covid-19 that is pushing them outside the safe group of people.

You say that the ICU your partner is working on in Glasgow had 23 patients who were already on the ICU with other conditions, and yet now they have CV too. You need to tell the press which hospital that is, its clearly got a serious problem with virus control. I certainly wouldn't like to be in that ICU, that's for sure!
 
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I grant you I don't know, just asking out loud. If it is mostly down to ventilators, it wouldn't alone explain why we in the UK have 140'ish deaths from 3200 cases unless we are out of ventilators already.

Just something strange in the numbers

We only have 5,000 ventilators nationally in the UK, which is why the Tories are desperate for other companies to now stand up to the plate and make them.
 
We only have 5,000 ventilators nationally in the UK, which is why the Tories are desperate for other companies to now stand up to the plate and make them.

That would fit. Was reading that some ventilator companies in Italy heard of this dodgy virus occurring in January and then started to source parts for their ventilators. If our Government have been asleep at the wheel up until last week when the first request went out, that is disturbing.

If it is true that ventilators make that much difference as they appear to in Germany, then they have to go for almost full lock down until we have enough.
 
We only have 5,000 ventilators nationally in the UK, which is why the Tories are desperate for other companies to now stand up to the plate and make them.

I read that they don't even cost all that much. I get that they wouldn't anticipate needing so many, but efforts by some to expedite helping bridge the gaps right now are being hampered. Take this for example: https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/news/3d-printed-valves-covid-19-italy/

While in a sense I can see why this company would take such action, in meaningful and humane terms, these people are clearly doing the right thing. We can achieve so much by working together, but so often that's not the emphasis. I can only hope that something approaching a readjustment of priorities comes out of this testing moment. We need to look out for one another more.
 
I genuinely don't understand the thought process of anyone who says it's no worse than the flu. I say that, not to be argumentative, but as a simple statement of fact.

We have seasonal flu every winter. Do events get cancelled? Is sport - all sport - put on hold? Do people get ordered to stay at home? Do schools close? Does the Army get called out? Do supermarkets implement rationing? Do retired medical staff get called up? Do the global financial markets crash to an unprecedented degree? Do airlines axe between 50% and 90% of their schedules?

All around the world, just about every event you can name has been cancelled. Life has been turned upside down for billions of people.

Here is a tiny tiny subset of what's been cancelled or closed: GCSEs and A-levels, nurseries, schools, universities, Eurovision, Glastonbury, BAFTAs, elective surgeries, English Heritage properties, National Trust properties, museums, art galleries, cinemas, concerts, plays, music festivals, Stonehenge Spring Equinox, many flights, Brighton Festival, Duxford Air Show, Grand National, Hay Literature Festival, Princess Beatrice’s wedding, football, rugby, PGA Championship, tennis majors, parkruns, Suffolk Show, many ferry crossings, Pride Edinburgh, literary festivals, Brexit talks, exhibitions & trade shows, mosque prayers, church services, graduation ceremonies, U3A events, Boat Race, E3 game show, Playboy Magazine, Cannes Film Festival, filming of many films and TV series, EastEnders, F1 races, etc.

So how can you sit there with a straight face and say "it's just the flu"? That's to deny every single piece of evidence in front of you.

Either everyone in the world is in on a giant conspiracy, and managing to hide it - or you're not taking the situation seriously enough.

Boris Johnson has done a poor job of handling the crisis. But he has done an even worse job of scaring people about it. We should all be petrified. Because then we'd be behaving as the situation demanded. Nobody would be down the pub. Nobody would be at a concert. Nobody would still be meeting their friends. And we'd have a chance to slow the virus's progress.

There's a horrible reason why Italy's death rate is so high, even though its health system is better equipped than ours (twice as many doctors per capital, and twice as many critical beds): their health system is full. Literally full. Most of the cases of the virus will be reasonably mild. But maybe 10% will be bad. And a few % of the bad ones will need hospital treatment. But what happens when there are no beds left, no ventilators, and no medical staff to look after them? Suddenly, every bad case becomes critical. And the death rate shoots up. Not only that, but the pattern of victims changes. It's not just the very elderly any more. There will be some badly affected in every age group. None of them will be able to get the necessary care.

It is also unhelpful to labour under the notion that China still has a huge number of cases it's hiding. Nothing in its behaviour backs that up. Again, the simplest explanation for something for which there is no evidence whatsoever isn't "it's a conspiracy". No, the simplest explanation is "what I am seeing is reality".

Will some governments in some countries be hiding some things? Inevitably. Does that mean that the default mode of all governments in all countries is to hide everything? How do you even get out of bed with that level of paranoia?

If you want to understand why normal life has stopped everywhere in the world, you have to look at the shape of the graphs, not just the raw numbers.

upload_2020-3-20_5-36-59.png

(the above came from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ which also has detailed figures by country)

That's not the shape you want to see!

Italy went into a strict lockdown over a week ago, just as their number of cases and death rate skyrocketed. Why? Because the virus takes two weeks to fully manifest. So you lock everything down on day 1 but you have a gigantic pool of latent cases that you've neither detected nor seen the consequences of yet.

If the course of the virus in Italy follows that of South Korea and China and other countries that took drastic, decisive action, then in about another week the numbers should bend down and down. And eventually, if everyone obeys curfew, they won't have any new cases.

Here in the UK, we're not reacting in anywhere near as drastic a fashion. Our mortality curve is now worse than Italy's was at the same point. And even though Boris Johnson's closed the schools and "strongly advised" people not to go to pubs, clubs etc. he hasn't imposed a strict lockdown. So our curve won't be bending down like Italy's and the others any time in the foreseeable future.

At the moment, we're just feeling the first couple of raindrops of the storm to come.
 
(Covered a lot above, but I just realised I'd left one crucial thing out...)

Different countries are operating under very different testing regimes. Some are testing anyone who had so much as a cough or throat tickle (China, which has done more than 1,200,000 separate tests - another reason why they got their epidemic under control, because they ruthlessly quarantined every case they found). Others are testing only those with serious symptoms. Here in the UK, the testing has always been patchy and recently got more so: now, only the people presenting to hospital are being tested.

So if you're one of the people heeding the UK Government's advice to self-isolate at home if you're experiencing the symptoms of the virus (and not to call 111 unless things get really bad for you.) you won't figure in any statistics - but you still have the virus, and you can still pass it on. And if you're one of the people who gets it but has almost no reaction to it, you won't figure in any statistics - but you can still pass it on.

The vast discrepancies in testing regimes country to country mean the grim reality is that comparing death rates is a better (though still not perfect) way to measure how far it's penetrated into each population. This still assumes that people who died of causes that might be the virus are then tested. The working assumption appears to be that most will be, in developed countries at least.

Here's Italy's figures...
upload_2020-3-20_6-7-51.png

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

On 5 March, Italy had approx the same number of coronavirus deaths (148) as we did yesterday (144). That maybe puts into perspective what we should sadly expect to see happen around us in the next few weeks.

Here's our own curve...
upload_2020-3-20_6-9-41.png

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Basically, for a while (almost) nobody had the virus.

And then some people had it, but only the very weakest died quickly (think 90+ years old and already with severe underlying conditions.)

But then the people who had been hospitalised for a bit but who weren't getting better started to die.

All the while the virus has kept spreading, and spreading, and spreading.

So you should not expect the next few weeks to be representative of the last few weeks. And that's putting it mildly.

Be sensible. Keep away from crowds (not just for your own sake, but for the sake of anyone you meet - you could easily have the virus and not know it because there's a gap between catching it and symptoms appearing). Stay safe!
 
Hospital footage from Italy (due to privacy settings you may need to click through):

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As others have said, a lot of the victims would have led active, long lives, if it were not for contracting coronavirus.

What do you know, that supports this view?

For all anyone knows, everyone who has died, may have died whether they had a diagnosis of CV or not. We can be sure many would given they all have had pre-existing conditions.

"All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions." - Bloomberg.
 
Your use of 'very' is wrong here. People with underlying medical conditions cover as much of a broad spectrum as any other distribution, and those who have died were certainly not all very ill.

Again...from Bloomberg "All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions."

Worse than that, your use of 'the only people' is a clear indication that you are not grasping the issue here. Those 'only people' are succumbing under circumstances where, in any other year, they would not. Many would probably have been able to cope with 'normal' flu etc, just like you or I. It's the added lethal effects of Covid-19 that is pushing them outside the safe group of people.

That is pure speculation. Remember, people with serious conditions haven't routinely been tested for CV until the last few weeks. So when you see graphs of cases and deaths that seem to skyrocket...remember that.

 
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