Corona please read very important

[Admin]

I am explicitly not going to answer that. Let's not start stuff related to Brexit again here, please.

Murrays comment was about you not Brexit, i think that is clear

 

[Edwin]

Murrays comment was about you not Brexit, i think that is clear

Ok. Keeping it general: I get interested in certain subjects and I read a lot, then I read more, then occasionally I really start digging deeper into them. (Obvious government incompetence seems to be a very good fuel to encourage that extra research spurt.)

That's probably the closest answer I can give.

 

[Edwin]

This charade has gone on way too long for me, I've been going out for the last week. Good to see local take aways also opening round here. If they can't trust me with an exit plan, I'll form my own. In fact, I'd now encourage people to do the same. I'll still respect social distancing though. I would never intrude on someone elses beliefs.

FYI, I will not be responding to any of your posts from here on out. I mention that for clarity because we had been mid-way through a discussion about the Stanford study.

I refuse to engage from here on out with anyone who can be so deliberately provocative in the middle of a crisis as you've just set out. Actively encouraging others to flout the arrangements meant to protect us all? It's disgraceful, plain and simple.

 

[websaway]

In the slang of psychology, the colloquial term control freak describes a person with a personality disorder characterized by undermining other people, usually by way of controlling behaviour manifested in the ways that he or she acts to dictate the order of things in a social situation.

 

[newguy]

This is a few months old, we have no idea about the antibodies/immunity over the mid to long term.

Yes, this is a concern due to the implications if immunity doesn't last long. if immunity lasts for say a couple of years, in all likelihood Covid-19 will peter out over time. If it's just a few months though, there will possibly never be herd immunity. Hopefully the former scenario is what comes to pass. That and work on vaccines and other treatments here and abroad is ongoing, so I hope we manage to have some kind of meaningful breakthrough that diminishes the impact this virus is having on the world.

 

[LCHappy]

This is a few months old, we have no idea about the antibodies/immunity over the mid to long term

Then what are we waiting in lock down for? If antibodies don't work, a vaccine won't either.

Are you just here to troll?

Are they not outside hospitals clapping themselves in their thousands?

So how well does your 'exit plan' work out when everyone is doing the same as you've actively encouraged in a public forum - can you maintain social distancing in densely populated areas? Because it seems difficult to do amidst a lock down at times, let alone anywhere near normal numbers of people out and about.

People were socially distancing fine in the week or so up to the lock down, before Professor Morgan and Imperial College got involved.

I don't understand how others inside their homes due to a lock down are going to catch it from me being outside. If they adhere to a lock down, we would never meet

 

[bonusmedia]

Interesting piece on denialism: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth

 

[LCHappy]

FYI, I will not be responding to any of your posts from here on out. I mention that for clarity because we had been mid-way through a discussion about the Stanford study.

I refuse to engage from here on out with anyone who can be so deliberately provocative in the middle of a crisis as you've just set out. Actively encouraging others to flout the arrangements meant to protect us all? It's disgraceful, plain and simple.

Edwin, you don't debate with people anyway, you post and run. It doesn't matter whether insult you or not, you don't debate people. If you think you have some sort of self certified moral superiority over those of us that disagree with you then fine, I disagree. There is nothing morally or intellectually superior in people dying through poverty. The number of times you claimed that the UK is doomed because of a 2% fall in GDP due to Brexit, but 35% fall due to CV is fine.

 

[bonusmedia]

In the slang of psychology, the colloquial term control freak describes a person with a personality disorder characterized by undermining other people, usually by way of controlling behaviour manifested in the ways that he or she acts to dictate the order of things in a social situation.

Admirable self-reflection old chap

 

[LCHappy]

This article is only available to subscribers

Got me worried now, wondering if I subscribed by accident

Check out the comments from here, what's being described by people isn't normal, but fully consistent.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-early-September-not-originated-Wuhan.html

 

[LCHappy]

Completely meaningless really. When you have an 'outcome' it's extremely easy to fit something in your life to meet the requirements of that outcome.

I disagree, Those of us that had it, knew we had not had that before and we commented on it at the time. I read a blog post the other day, someone limited google to Dec 31st 2019 and went searching for "flu like symptoms". Then tried it for 2018, and there was nothing on the same scale. Try it and see. I think there was a 1000% spike in flu like cases in Australia in 2019 according to a Sky news article for July 2019.

 

[LCHappy]

To prevent our health services becoming overwhelmed and losing more lives through collateral damage.

They are running at 60-70% capacity in ICU, if we open up the doors now, on R0 models of 3.0 it would be 3 months before they reached capacity. Whilst we are at 60-70% or whatever it is, we have shut down Chemo and other treatments. This wasn't the plan at the start.

I've not seen that video - if they are good luck to them, they need a break and a pat on the back for going back into work everyday and helping everyone who is suffering. I'm not sure I could be so brave to put myself in that situation each day at work.

There are quite a few different hospitals now doing it. I don't mind them doing it, but please, they should not at the same time be painting a picture of being stressed to the max when they can thousands can go outside to clap.

I'm not sure whereabouts you're based, but that wasn't the case where I live, or what I saw from friends in London.

I live in the West country, you make a a fair point if you live in London.

So it's one rule for you, because you've decided you're doing your own exit plan, and another set of rules for everyone else? How would things look if everyone took the same selfish outlook?

If you explain reasons for an ongoing lock down, and they are clear and add up, and ask me to do something then chances are I will do it. If you do what Matt Hancock did last week and say we aren't adult enough to handle an exit strategy then I'm going out.

I'll give people an example, why should I be on lock down, ruin my livelihood, when the Government is allowing flights with thousands of people on to land here each day?

 

[bonusmedia]

I disagree, Those of us that had it, knew we had not had that before and we commented on it at the time. I read a blog post the other day, someone limited google to Dec 31st 2019 and went searching for "flu like symptoms". Then tried it for 2018, and there was nothing on the same scale. Try it and see. I think there was a 1000% spike in flu like cases in Australia in 2019 according to a Sky news article for July 2019.

Just nonsense. You tell others to try it, but you don't bother trying it yourself.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=flu like symptoms

 

[LCHappy]

Just nonsense. You tell others to try it, but you don't bother trying it yourself.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=flu like symptoms

This thread is utterly toxic

What's wrong with you? Learn how to search Google. These are all on the first page, you can go back 20 pages if you want. Let me guess though, still not enough? Why not try and find me 20 pages of articles like this for the year 2018

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tal-ill-patient-gps-vaccine-phe-a9244201.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/06/us-flu-season-arrives-early-driven-by-an-unexpected-virus.html

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/...re-pressure-from-flu-vomiting-and-diaorrhoea/

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-need...eds-die-in-scary-australian-outbreak-11761331 - 900% increase in flu like symptoms - just look at the headline to the story "NHS 'needs to step up flu plans' after hundreds die in 'scary' Australian outbreak"

Only 40 have died in Australia due to CV, and they locked the place down.

 

[BREWSTERS]

The UK number of deaths are described as 'with' CV...not 'of' CV. Therefore the figure will be much fewer that the fear grabbing headline number. Likely to be a small percentage (Italy say circa 12% may be 'of' CV). This would put UK figure down to circa 1800.
This is routinely ignored by those of you defending the lockdown.

Also, the headline numbers include 'presumptive positives'. So that number of 1800 can be reduced again...by how many - who knows? Could be that they presumed correctly every time...in my families experience of diagnosis, I'd say they get it right about a third of the time.

Why would the authorities want the figures to be inflated in these ways? Because they need to justify the lockdown.

Source:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

If you believe that nearly 15k people have died because of CV in the UK...and look at countries such as Norway with only 163 - extrapolated that's 2082 = 13% of the number of UK deaths. Pretty close to the 12% figure from Italy above. But if you do believe that 15k represents actual deaths because of CV - you must think that the NHS are doing a really bad job of saving lives compared to Norway? And I fail to believe that.

---------------------

I know this site has been linked to previously but there's lot's of information from doctors and scientists who oppose the lockdowns amongst other things here

 

[LCHappy]

I think this is why there could be discussions around a phased exit plan, for different areas of the Country, as there's obviously big differences in population density, and likely why London has been such a hot spot.

I believe there was a fear that if they did a local shutdown, people would try to escape the cities and head to the rural areas. I think if they were clear that a lock down wouldn't be enforced more than it is being now, I believe most in the Cities would put up with it and stay put.

Would be good for non effected areas to get back up and running again.

Did he say that? Genuine question as I've not followed them all.

I'll find the exact quote, you are right, he probably wouldn't have used those words. Although it was from the interview where he lost his cool with the presenter so maybe, would be funny if he did

 

[bonusmedia]

Rightio. I'll pop off and learn about Google for my homework.
Probably should have done that before

 

[BREWSTERS]

Does anyone have any theories about supermarket workers?

I just googled "supermarket corona death" "tesco corona death" and "supermarket worker dies from corona"

There's not many articles about shop workers dying, only a few about a single person, none like "x amount have passed away" apart from one US report about 30

So it is not happening? aren't there deaths? or are news agencies told not to report it for fear of scaring shop workers away from their jobs when they're needed

I thought the same about the police - they're not bothering with social distancing and in many cases coming in to physical contact with people...driving round shoulder to shoulder. Many of their kids still going to school etc.

 

[bonusmedia]

There's an apocryphal tale about setting up mobile signal towers that cheers me up.
They put up the tower and announced a public meeting to talk about any impacts, got all the complaints, headaches, illness, turned me into a newt etc. Then at the end announced "We'll be turning it on next week".

 

[LCHappy]

You're not reading into what you're trying to say and even one of the articles you've posted goes against what you've said. If dig into things you will see where it starts to fall apart.

The CNBC article you linked to for example only really states that in the US, they had a long flu season. If you look at the data (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html), you will see the 2018-2019 flu season was rather normal.

The CNBC article even specifically states that the 18-19 season, was not as bad as the one before it. The 17-18 season was actually rather high/bad compared to normal. The worse in many many years infact.

Unless you want to argue the possible case of coronavirus being in the US in 2017-2018 flu season, then it goes against your point.

I don't get what you mean, I'm arguing that the flu season for 2018-19 was normal, hence why I suggested someone find me similar articles from that season that match mine from the second half of 2019, because I can't.

I can trace the first signs of very abnormal ILI (Influenza Like Illnesss) to Australia July 2019. You are quoting figures at me from Sep 18 - Mar 19 (4 months before I claim it is going around) to show nothing was there.

If you show me data that suggest the 2019-20 flu season is normal then I'll happily concede.