Corona please read very important

[Siusaidh]

Brewsters, I'm afraid I'm not engaging with your argument. I wish you well, and good health, but source your own info. I'm afraid once you started quoting from the David Icke website, I decided that was the end of the conversation for me.

However, I'm posting this note to be clear and transparent: yes, I have 2 years' experience in Critical Care. However, I am presently deployed in another part of the NHS. That's mainly because of my own health vulnerabilities. Obviously I have colleagues and close friends who are giving their all in Critical Care.

I have strong feelings on these subjects, but I am trying to steer clear of commenting here, and sticking to domain threads, out of fear that this topic will damage the generally constructive support we offer each other on this site, and individual relationships specifically.

 

[websaway]

I know it wasn't. I was pointing out the irony of calling someone else a control freak. Again, you've posted far more about politics than anyone else.

You're right, I am vexed, I want to live in a society where expertise, ability and achievement are valued rather than scorned as "clever people trying to tell us what to do" (N Farage on the WHO).

That's too political for me. My political views were of the day, they are not so relevant now after the election and leaving the EU. This is a post about the virus I don't think politics has anything to do with that except to those who wish to bash the elected government of the day. Just for clarification the Marxists got the worst election result since 1935 and the liberal leader even lost her own seat. Now lets have an end to this and move on and be positive about the future.

 

[bonusmedia]

Anyone want to offer their opinion of this, quite a useful summation I think: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

My opinion is that it's possible to give a very misleading picture using genuine evidence by being highly selective.

 

[Admin]

My opinion is that it's possible to give a very misleading picture using genuine evidence by being highly selective.

OK that's clear. However, if they don't have an agenda why do you consider it misleading. Why don't you consider it for what it is...a collective opinion of academics presenting evidence (even if it is a little selectively presented). They must be presenting it in this way for a reason and I'd like to think that reason is that this is what they truly believe based on all evidence to date.

 

[Admin]

Let's keep it civil, stop the shots across the water. Stick to opinions, facts, sharing of information and don't insult those with opposing views. It's not impossible, many are managing that here.

 

[bonusmedia]

OK that's clear. However, if they don't have an agenda why do you consider it misleading. Why don't you consider it for what it is...a collective opinion of academics presenting evidence (even if it is a little selectively presented). They must be presenting it in this way for a reason and I'd like to think that reason is that this is what they truly believe based on all evidence to date.

Why do you assume that they don't have an agenda? It's quite an obvious one.

You can find academic opinion to support holocaust denial too, and I'm sure those people genuinely believe it, but it doesn't mean they're right.

 

[websaway]

Anyone want to offer their opinion of this, quite a useful summation I think: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/


Swiss Propaganda Research (SPR) is an independent nonprofit research group investigating geopolitical propaganda in Swiss and international media. SPR is run anonymously by independent academics. High quality articles are available in up to 14 languages.

When you read that "several studies have shown" and that " several experts believe" it should be taken for what it is. There are thousands of virologists, experts, and studies all vying for recognition, some of them will invariably be correct. Some will be wrong.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Anyone want to offer their opinion of this, quite a useful summation I think: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/


Swiss Propaganda Research (SPR) is an independent nonprofit research group investigating geopolitical propaganda in Swiss and international media. SPR is run anonymously by independent academics. High quality articles are available in up to 14 languages.

I linked to it yesterday - and a couple of weeks back, and someone else has linked to it to. It’s a good resource.

 

[websaway]

Apparently, after age, the greatest risk to developing serious symptoms is being obese. When the lockdown is relaxed I think we might get away with keeping it for over 70's but who's going to tell the obese that they are still under lockdown .
As homer would say it just gets worser and worser..

 

[JMI]

Seems to be a trend that those here who voted remain want to gobble up the headlines and reject any possibility that there is something more to this pandemic unravelling, and the leavers are the sceptics. I keep an open mind on both sides of the arguments.
I'm not a huge fan of this government but can you imagine Jezza and Abbott running the show.

 

[websaway]

Well look, in 5 years you can go to the ballot box and vote against this majority government that has massive public support. For now can you keep your political agenda confined to your career activist social media account where you have like minded followers who you don't annoy.

I could only find 2 dislikes in my alerts for this post and yet the post is showing 5 dislikes. Can anyone shine light on why this should be so. Only Bonus and seemly showed up in my alerts.

 

[Admin]

Why do you assume that they don't have an agenda? It's quite an obvious one.

You can find academic opinion to support holocaust denial too, and I'm sure those people genuinely believe it, but it doesn't mean they're right.

But if you stick to the point and not talk about the holocaust please. You havent said why they are wrong, refuted any of their citations, much of it is summarised facts based on what is known. You've just dismissed it with no explanation. If I'm being naive, my eyes and ears are open.

 

[bonusmedia]

I haven't said they're wrong at all. I've said they're presenting a highly selective picture.

If their agenda is to expose propaganda as claimed, then naturally they are looking for examples of propaganda, rather than a balanced assessment of the evidence. I would not dream of suggesting there are no problems with the media, we could list them all day and never scratch the surface.

All sorts of early assumptions will naturally prove to be wrong, because the picture changes rapidly and needs adjusting when new evidence comes to light.

It's true that there are a lot of qualified and respected people criticising lockdown measures, there is no consensus and it's all moving too fast to arrive at one - it will probably take years to fully understand.

If someone is motivated to poke holes in a set of evidence, that will always be possible. It's not difficult to create doubt.

 

[bonusmedia]

By the way, I'm a startup investor. I'm looking at losing maybe 2/3 of my investments in the next few months. That's my problem, I took those risks, not asking for sympathy. The point being I have nothing to gain and a lot to lose from all this - I'm not just jumping to conclusions that suit me.

 

[Admin]

True Seemly. Of course, we are all going to have stronger opinions than normal when our basic freedoms are removed. None of us here will have ever experienced this before. Most of us can interpret basic statistics and that leads us to form opinions on whether we think the measures being taken are in proportion or even close to the best plan of action. A more nuanced approach than what I am experiencing here in Spain seems to be much needed. This novel flu virus (even though Im not an expert, just a guy who has read and read about it..) is extremely communicable but has a low fatality rate. We've never had a global lockdown before, I do not think this virus warranted it. However, it will have taught us many valuable lessons and hopefully improved preparedness for when a really bad one comes along, which it will.

According to data from the best-studied countries such as the US, South Korea, Iceland, Germany and Denmark, the overall lethality of Covid19 is between 0.1% and 0.4% and thus up to twenty times lower than initially assumed by the WHO.

 

[newguy]

On a positive note, the numbers (596) were down today. Let's hope that trends continues.

 

[LCHappy]

On a positive note, the numbers (596) were down today. Let's hope that trends continues.

It's a Sunday number unfortunately. In my opinion the numbers are all over the place now, I'm not sure anyone that takes them seriously. By the way, that's both ways, could be a lot higher or a lot lower.

 

[Edwin]

On a positive note, the numbers (596) were down today. Let's hope that trends continues.

There's a recent underlying positive trend, which is the actual count of COVID-19 hospital deaths that occurred on any particular day. (This is built up over time as more deaths get reported in arrears.)

Very roughly, the dark blue part of the graph represents figures that are unlikely to increase much from now on. The red part represents figures for which substantial change might still be expected (with progressively more change the more you head towards the right-hand side of the graph i.e. the last couple of data points are waaay too low.).

There's a clear peak in the "stabilised" data and we appear to now be descending from it. In a week's time, once the red part of the curve has been fleshed out with the additional data coming in, we'll know for sure.

The underlying data came from this spreadsheet...
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statisti...ID-19-all-announced-deaths-19-April-2020.xlsx

 

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[newguy]

It's a Sunday number unfortunately. In my opinion the numbers are all over the place now, I'm not sure anyone that takes them seriously. By the way, that's both ways, could be a lot higher or a lot lower.

Yes, I agree that it's important to be cautious about reading too much into any one day. I hope it manages to turn into a downward trend over time.