Corona please read very important

[diablo]

US jobless claims now exceed 21 million - and the self-employed and gig workers cannot claim.

 

[Edwin]

FYI, Dominic Raab just announced in this evening's daily press briefing that the lockdown will continue for at least another 3 weeks.

 

[LCHappy]

Barking mad, good luck putting the economy back together after this one.

 

[keys]

Another enlightening 42 minutes from Professor Kim,

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[newguy]

Barking mad, good luck putting the economy back together after this one.

Realistically they were never going to lift the restrictions until the numbers started coming down. I think they're on the verge of that though and so can see some kind of phased return to normality starting some time in May. It'll be gradual. You're right that the economy of course matters, but lifting restrictions early could cause a spike in cases, which would lead to massive numbers of people not going out anyway, so you end up back at the same place. I think the reality is that we're craving an easy way out of a situation where one doesn't exist.

Maybe if we'd conducted massive amounts of ongoing testing South Korea and Germany style, we;d be on a different trajectory. We didn't do that though unfortunately. That's understandable to an extent as this is a new situation, though I do see what has happened with care homes are rather shameful, as there was a sad inevitability to the challenges they were going to face.

 

[LCHappy]

Realistically they were never going to lift the restrictions until the numbers started coming down. I think they're on the verge of that though and so can see some kind of phased return to normality starting some time in May. It'll be gradual. You're right that the economy of course matters, but lifting restrictions early could cause a spike in cases, which would lead to massive numbers of people not going out anyway, so you end up back at the same place. I think the reality is that we're craving an easy way out of a situation where one doesn't exist.

Maybe if we'd conducted massive amounts of ongoing testing South Korea and Germany style, we;d be on a different trajectory. We didn't do that though unfortunately. That's understandable to an extent as this is a new situation, though I do see what has happened with care homes are rather shameful, as there was a sad inevitability to the challenges they were going to face.

I'm lost on the strategy then, it seems that it has changed. The original strategy was to let the virus run at around 80% (or whatever number it was) of the capacity what the NHS could treat. We all agreed it was going through this country whether we liked it or not. The genie was out of the bottle.

Now, the Nightingale hospitals are empty, the NHS has 5000 empty icu beds or something stupid, the infection rates are dropping and we are still killing the economy. Something just isn't right here.

We should be reopening things but keeping the social distancing, keep locking down the vulnerable, wear face masks in public so limit the spread.

Now we seem to be back to the same thinking we had in January in that we could contain it. It's very very odd and no longer adds up.

 

[newguy]

I'm lost on the strategy then, it seems that it has changed. The original strategy was to let the virus run at around 80% (or whatever number it was) of the capacity what the NHS could treat. We all agreed it was going through this country whether we liked it or not. The genie was out of the bottle.

Now, the Nightingale hospitals are empty, the NHS has 5000 empty icu beds or something stupid, the infection rates are dropping and we are still killing the economy. Something just isn't right here.

We should be reopening things but keeping the social distancing, keep locking down the vulnerable, wear face masks in public so limit the spread.

Now we seem to be back to the same thinking we had in January in that we could contain it. It's very very odd and no longer adds up.

It may be the case that the second wave will be worse than the first, and that then is when the extra capacity will come into play. I do appreciate the point that a balance has to come into play though as unquestionably some countries have dealt with this better than others. If testing can be ramped up and wearing masks in public mandatory I can see measures like that being as effective or approaching it as the current measures and less damaging to the economy. It's a difficult needle to thread as it doesn't appear that we were very prepared for what we're facing.

 

[LCHappy]

It may be the case that the second wave will be worse than the first, and that then is when the extra capacity will come into play. I do appreciate the point that a balance has to come into play though as unquestionably some countries have dealt with this better than others. If testing can be ramped up and wearing masks in public mandatory I can see measures like that being as effective or approaching it as the current measures and less damaging to the economy. It's a difficult needle to thread as it doesn't appear that we were very prepared for what we're facing.

As I understood it, the only way to avoid another wave was to allow the curve to be flat. The only way the curve can be flat is if it is done at a relatively high level.

I don't know what the plan is now. If they continue to try and keep it out, we will be on lock down until a vaccine comes. Is that the new plan, I think it is now? I ain't putting one in my arm though, I'll take my chances with the virus.

 

[newguy]

As I understood it, the only way to avoid another wave was to allow the curve to be flat. The only way the curve can be flat is if it is done at a relatively high level.

I don't know what the plan is now. If they continue to try and keep it out, we will be on lock down until a vaccine comes. Is that the new plan, I think it is now? I ain't putting one in my arm though, I'll take my chances with the virus.

Unfortunately I think another wave/increase is almost inevitable, however logically it will be less pronounced than it otherwise would've been without the lockdown, and we wouldn't have had the aforementioned additional capacity in place.

So much is still unknown, but even in lockdown the virus seems to have spread reasonably far and wide, and so i think a level of herd immunity will eventually happen at some point once things open up. As for a vaccine, I can understand people being wary of something new (if it's ever made available to begin with!), so it might be the matter of weighing up the pros and cons. Perhaps like the flu jab the vulnerable and elderly will be the focus of such efforts.

 

[Murray]

I don't know what the plan is now. If they continue to try and keep it out, we will be on lock down until a vaccine comes. Is that the new plan, I think it is now?

They better start pumping out some cash real quick if that's the case otherwise there will be some families with no money for food and we will start seeing riots

I don't think they can keep us all in for much beyond another 3 weeks, people are fed up, we will see higher rates of non-compliance

Maybe it will be released to a partial lockdown in 3 weeks, which will be like a full lockdown just with a new name lol

 

[donton]

Barking mad, good luck putting the economy back together after this one.

People keep telling me it’ll bounce back. The problem is, how do you bounce back when you’ve torched at least 30% of GDP? Obviously it’ll “bounce” a little bit but I think it’s going to take years (10+) to come back properly.

I saw a sad report on the news a while back about a man who fell off a train platform. He ended up wedged between a train and the platform, if they moved the train his organs spilled out and... you know the rest. So they rushed his loved ones down to say goodbye before they moved the train.

Right now the economy is between a train and a platform.

When “lockdown” is lifted and half the businesses that shuttered three weeks ago don’t reopen, that’s when the penny will drop for many people, our government included.

When people are allowed out again, do you think they’ll pop down to the local BMW garage to buy a new car? Or to the local jewellers? Or even the local estate agents? Will they heck. People will be tightening their belts so hard they’ll turn into sausages.

I hope I’m wrong but I have a terrible feeling about this... what’s coming next isn’t a recession, it’s a depression we haven’t seen the likes of for generations.

I’m not saying I have the answers because I don’t, and I’m not saying it’s been handled good or bad by government because I’m not qualified to judge that. But I think we might regret the extent to which the economy is trashed. And I think we’ll be surprised at just how delayed government were in recognising how severely distressed many, many companies are.

 

[keys]

Consumer confidence will be shaken to a magnitude beyond the past boundaries of fiction. As usual, the poor will suffer most, and the majority of humans on the planet will be very adversely affected.

A report calculates that many billionaires see their wealth diminishing at a rate of $200m per day. Perhaps no surprise that six Chinese billionaires have recently joined the top 100 league.

Luxury homes, goods and travel will need a substantial adjustment between supply and demand, for some time.

 

[diablo]

 

[websaway]

People keep telling me it’ll bounce back. The problem is, how do you bounce back when you’ve torched at least 30% of GDP? Obviously it’ll “bounce” a little bit but I think it’s going to take years (10+) to come back properly.

I saw a sad report on the news a while back about a man who fell off a train platform. He ended up wedged between a train and the platform, if they moved the train his organs spilled out and... you know the rest. So they rushed his loved ones down to say goodbye before they moved the train.

Right now the economy is between a train and a platform.

When “lockdown” is lifted and half the businesses that shuttered three weeks ago don’t reopen, that’s when the penny will drop for many people, our government included.

When people are allowed out again, do you think they’ll pop down to the local BMW garage to buy a new car? Or to the local jewellers? Or even the local estate agents? Will they heck. People will be tightening their belts so hard they’ll turn into sausages.

I hope I’m wrong but I have a terrible feeling about this... what’s coming next isn’t a recession, it’s a depression we haven’t seen the likes of for generations.

I’m not saying I have the answers because I don’t, and I’m not saying it’s been handled good or bad by government because I’m not qualified to judge that. But I think we might regret the extent to which the economy is trashed. And I think we’ll be surprised at just how delayed government were in recognising how severely distressed many, many companies are.

don't forget what was predicted to happen the day after we voted to leave the EU.
Things are adjusted to take into consideration events.
I think you paint an overly depressing scenario for the UK.
Pain, yes, normality no, but except for shutting up the
career activists with only self interest on their agenda we
will be able to cope with everything this thing throws at us.
And remember it relies on the older generation who have invaluable
experience of dealing with adversity to pull us through. This is a
wake up call for the snow flakes who think they have a divine right
to anything in this eventful world.

 

[BREWSTERS]

From davidicke.com - I can't remove the swear words


Why are old people dying in care homes? A care home nurse sent this to us

 

[BREWSTERS]

Consumer confidence will be shaken to a magnitude beyond the past boundaries of fiction. As usual, the poor will suffer most, and the majority of humans on the planet will be very adversely affected.

A report calculates that many billionaires see their wealth diminishing at a rate of $200m per day. Perhaps no surprise that six Chinese billionaires have recently joined the top 100 league.

Luxury homes, goods and travel will need a substantial adjustment between supply and demand, for some time.

The poor are already poor...and the rich will buy on the drop. It's the middle classes that will suffer from the impending crash. House prices will plummet...negative equity will be a major thing, again.

House arrest will continue long enough to guarantee a certain level of destruction of the economy that will ensure enough people become dependant on the state. Universal credit will be the norm.

Meanwhile the majority are focused on the virus...why do you think the media is only pushing the fear? Governments don't care about the people - at all. What proof do you have that they did before this virus? Squeezing pensions and extending working ages. Telling pensioners who have paid into the system all their lives to sell their houses to cover their costs. Before this, governments looked on pensioners as a drain on resources. And now they want us to believe that crashing the economy is money well spent if those pensioners get a few more days or weeks of life? These people send fit young men and women to go and fight unnecessary wars when it suits them. But now every life is precious? I don't buy it.

And now China has come out and upped their numbers 50%...give me a break...no-one believed what they said in the first place. But now rumour has it the UK might extend house arrest until the end of June on the back of it.

I'm sure all you well researched will know about the Rockerfeller document mentioned here - fast forward to 22.10 - this used to be available on the rockerfeller foundation website until recently...was a couple of weeks ago that I know. Doesn't seem to be there now - you can read it here - just another of those pesky coincidences though eh?

Getting back to the virus itself - who is to say that in order to save one life, another must be sacrificed? That's pretty much what seems to be happening. The vast majority of those deaths attributed to CV are of very elderly patients with pre-existing conditions. My mum died at 81 from cancer...she said from being about 78 or so that she was ready to go and would've chosen euthanasia if she could. My partners dad is bed ridden at home, paralysed down one side from a stroke. He says every day that he wants to go. I'm not suggesting that everyone in their conditions feel that way...but if a survey was done of 75yo+ with serious ailments, asking if they'd like their children and grandchildren to lose their jobs and homes so they can get a few more days or weeks of life, I think I know what they'd say.

 

[websaway]

The poor are already poor...and the rich will buy on the drop. It's the middle classes that will suffer from the impending crash. House prices will plummet...negative equity will be a major thing, again.

House arrest will continue long enough to guarantee a certain level of destruction of the economy that will ensure enough people become dependant on the state. Universal credit will be the norm.

Meanwhile the majority are focused on the virus...why do you think the media is only pushing the fear? Governments don't care about the people - at all. What proof do you have that they did before this virus? Squeezing pensions and extending working ages. Telling pensioners who have paid into the system all their lives to sell their houses to cover their costs. Before this, governments looked on pensioners as a drain on resources. And now they want us to believe that crashing the economy is money well spent if those pensioners get a few more days or weeks of life? These people send fit young men and women to go and fight unnecessary wars when it suits them. But now every life is precious? I don't buy it.

And now China has come out and upped their numbers 50%...give me a break...no-one believed what they said in the first place. But now rumour has it the UK might extend house arrest until the end of June on the back of it.

I'm sure all you well researched will know about the Rockerfeller document mentioned here - fast forward to 22.10 - this used to be available on the rockerfeller foundation website until recently...was a couple of weeks ago that I know. Doesn't seem to be there now - you can read it here - just another of those pesky coincidences though eh?

Getting back to the virus itself - who is to say that in order to save one life, another must be sacrificed? That's pretty much what seems to be happening. The vast majority of those deaths attributed to CV are of very elderly patients with pre-existing conditions. My mum died at 81 from cancer...she said from being about 78 or so that she was ready to go and would've chosen euthanasia if she could. My partners dad is bed ridden at home, paralysed down one side from a stroke. He says every day that he wants to go. I'm not suggesting that everyone in their conditions feel that way...but if a survey was done of 75yo+ with serious ailments, asking if they'd like their children and grandchildren to lose their jobs and homes so they can get a few more days or weeks of life, I think I know what they'd say.

You suggest that the lockdown is to give 75 yo+ with serious ailments a few days or weeks more of life, but it's not, the mere fact that Boris Johnson nearly died suggests you are not looking at this from a balanced perspective.
The Spanish flu killed many, many millions, so if anything we are not being careful enough.

 

[Siusaidh]

From davidicke.com

That was as far as I got

 

[Murray]

Are the elderly still being seen by normal doctors and getting the care they usually would? are some passing away because they aren't? are some not getting care because it's guessed as corona?

I don't know the answer but they're fair questions and I fear some of the answers might not be what you would hope

 

[BREWSTERS]

Are the elderly still being seen by normal doctors and getting the care they usually would? are some passing away because they aren't? are some not getting care because it's guessed as corona?

I don't know the answer but they're fair questions and I fear some of the answers might not be what you would hope

The figures for the week up to 03 Apr 20 suggest that at least 2600 extra deaths occurred (compared to the 5y average for that week) that week that weren't connected to CV (which was said to be approx. 3450) so potentially 2600 who couldn't access their usual treatments?