Corona please read very important

[starbird]

Trump says US will halt W.H.O funding. Rightly so , they failed and any organization that takes the word of a country like China without it's own research is no longer fit for purpose. Be interesting to see how the UK responds to this. Trump has fought against the mainstream media throughout all of this but he has lead his country well. Hopes to get the US going again by the 1st of May. He has balanced real time data with reality while our government listens to the same scientists who thought herd immunity was a good idea.

The US has handled the crisis way better than the UK, there is leadership there. An attitude that we'll beat this and get the economy going again. Over here we get the "based on the science" line. The US acted later than the UK yet has trounced the UK in it's response and clear message things will start slowly returning to normal by May, while the UK has no clue.

 

[Edwin]

IMPORTANT: The NHS England data on coronavirus deaths that's released to the public daily is built up over time

Take 1 April 2020 (the day we have the most data for)

The public were informed of the 558 deaths that occurred in hospital on 1 April 2020 on the following schedule.

In other words, on 2 April, we only knew about 84 of the 558 deaths that had occurred on 1 April. NHS England reported a further 179 deaths for 1 April on 3 April. 134 more deaths for 1 April were reported on 4 April. And so on, and so on.

So every day brought more clarity as to what actually happened in hospitals on 1 April. And the process is ongoing: 1 more death was recorded for 1 April yesterday!

Because the data only started being released on a daily basis from 2 April, and because it takes at least 2 weeks (and likely more) to record every death that occurred on any particular day, we don't yet know the full death toll in hospital in England for any April day.

Why does this matter? Because many people misinterpret the daily figures being released by NHS England as representing COVID-19 deaths that occurred in the last 24 hours. Instead, they're COVID-19 deaths that occurred any time but were recorded in the last 24 hours.

This crucial distinction is important because it means that the eye-watering headline death toll is undercounting thousands of deaths that have already occurred in hospital. I don't believe there's malice or intent to conceal. It's just a slow, complex process. Post-mortems and testing take time. Informing the families and obtaining consent take time. Compiling all the information and then gathering it centrally takes time. Verifying each statistic takes time. No conspiracy, just a lot of drag in the system.

But it does mean the 11,000 COVID-19 hospital deaths in England that have already been announced could easily turn out to be 15,000+ once the final count is in. (And of course the gap between the released count and reality widens as the daily toll increases, because each missing day of data includes more deaths.)

And it also means that our "relative performance" graphs will need to be retroactively redrawn in a couple of weeks. We may well find that, far from pacing Italy and behind Spain, we were in fact ahead of both - we just didn't know it at the time.

If you want to take a look at the data for yourself, the NHS England summary spreadsheet is available from the link below, along with the death tolls that were released each day since 2 April. (I drew the graph above by copying each line of data from the individual days' spreadsheets into one file.)
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

 

[starbird]

Again, along with your other posts, this is misinformed opinion and not based on facts.

Based on what are you saying the US has handled the crisis way better than the UK? There's no way to tell that at the moment and to say otherwise is misleading.

All of your posts on this thread are misleading, your point is ? has the US done more testing, yes. Is the US making it clear when they intend to exit the lock down ? yes, Has the US provided more PPE to their health care staff ? yes. These are facts. your posts are merely self opinionated views.

 

[AssetDomains]

Thanks Edwin you can always be relied upon for some clear informative stats.

BBC has released the ONS per region to me they paint a clear picture again of Whats going on but I know some will still disagree.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52282844

Its easy to forget when we band about numbers behind every data point is a persons life lost to this horrible thing.
This thing does largely target the elderly and to a subset of these it may be a mercy. To others it robs them of a few months maybe a year. I think many of these have already made peace with the fact there time is near.

The patients I reflect on the most are the middle aged the 50 - 60 year olds with it who should have good 15-30 years ahead of them these remind me of my parents. A fair proportion of this age group if they get to the hospital stage do succumb to it sadly. I don't think they are anywhere as near prepared for the frank conversation the doctors have to have with them about DNARs and there odds should they test positive.

Anyway I think I'll bow out of this for the time being I understand I'm not going to change the opinion some people. I've gone back an edited a few posts as it not fair to have a dig at individuals just because there views differs from mine apologies if I caused offence.

This thing is real so stay safe hopefully no of you or families get in acute enough to require hospitalisation

All of your posts on this thread are misleading, your point is ? has the US done more testing, yes. Is the US making it clear when they intend to exit the lock down ? yes, Has the US provided more PPE to their health care staff ? yes. These are facts. your posts are merely self opinionated views.

Thanks Edwin you can always be relied upon for some clear informative stats.

BBC has released the ONS per region to me they paint a clear picture again of Whats going on but I know some will still disagree.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52282844

Its easy to forget when we band about numbers behind every data point is a persons life lost to this horrible thing.
This thing does largely target the elderly and to a subset of these it may be a mercy. To others it robs them of a few months maybe a year. I think many of these have already made peace with the fact there time is near.

The patients I reflect on the most are the middle aged the 50 - 60 year olds with it who should have good 15-30 years ahead of them these remind me of my parents. A fair proportion of this age group if they get to the hospital stage do succumb to it sadly. I don't think they are anywhere as near prepared for the frank conversation the doctors have to have with them about DNARs and there odds should they test positive.

Anyway I think I'll bow out of this for the time being I understand I'm not going to change the opinion some people. I've gone back an edited a few posts as it not fair to have a dig at individuals just because there views differs from mine apologies if I caused offence.

This thing is real so stay home safe as much as you can. Hopefully none of you your family or friends who get it fall into minority where it is acute enough to require hospitalisation.​

 

[AssetDomains]

IMPORTANT: The NHS England data on coronavirus deaths that's released to the public daily is built up over time

Take 1 April 2020 (the day we have the most data for)

The public were informed of the 558 deaths that occurred in hospital on 1 April 2020 on the following schedule.

In other words, on 2 April, we only knew about 84 of the 558 deaths that had occurred on 1 April. NHS England reported a further 179 deaths for 1 April on 3 April. 134 more deaths for 1 April were reported on 4 April. And so on, and so on.

So every day brought more clarity as to what actually happened in hospitals on 1 April. And the process is ongoing: 1 more death was recorded for 1 April yesterday!

Because the data only started being released on a daily basis from 2 April, and because it takes at least 2 weeks (and likely more) to record every death that occurred on any particular day, we don't yet know the full death toll in hospital in England for any April day.

Why does this matter? Because many people misinterpret the daily figures being released by NHS England as representing COVID-19 deaths that occurred in the last 24 hours. Instead, they're COVID-19 deaths that occurred any time but were recorded in the last 24 hours.

This crucial distinction is important because it means that the eye-watering headline death toll is undercounting thousands of deaths that have already occurred in hospital. I don't believe there's malice or intent to conceal. It's just a slow, complex process. Post-mortems and testing take time. Informing the families and obtaining consent take time. Compiling all the information and then gathering it centrally takes time. Verifying each statistic takes time. No conspiracy, just a lot of drag in the system.

But it does mean the 11,000 COVID-19 hospital deaths in England that have already been announced could easily turn out to be 15,000+ once the final count is in. (And of course the gap between the released count and reality widens as the daily toll increases, because each missing day of data includes more deaths.)

And it also means that our "relative performance" graphs will need to be retroactively redrawn in a couple of weeks. We may well find that, far from pacing Italy and behind Spain, we were in fact ahead of both - we just didn't know it at the time.

If you want to take a look at the data for yourself, the NHS England summary spreadsheet is available from the link below, along with the death tolls that were released each day since 2 April. (I drew the graph above by copying each line of data from the individual days' spreadsheets into one file.)
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Thanks Edwin you can always be relied upon for some clear informative stats.

BBC has released the ONS per region to me they paint a clear picture again of Whats going on but I know some will still disagree.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52282844


Its easy to forget when we band about numbers behind every data point is a persons life lost to this horrible thing.

This thing does largely target the elderly and to a subset of these it may be a mercy. To others it robs them of a few months maybe a year. I think many of these have already made peace with the fact there time is near.

The patients I reflect on the most are the middle aged the 50 - 60 year olds with it who should have good 15-30 years ahead of them these remind me of my parents. A fair proportion of this age group if they get to the hospital stage do succumb to it sadly. I don't think they are anywhere as near prepared for the frank conversation the doctors have to have with them about DNARs and there odds should they test positive.

Anyway I think I'll bow out of this for the time being I understand I'm not going to change the opinion some people. I've gone back an edited a few posts as it not fair to have a dig at individuals just because there views differs from mine apologies if I caused offence.

This thing is real so stay home safe as much as you can. Hopefully none of you your family or friends who get it fall into minority where it is acute enough to require hospitalisation.​

 

[Murray]

Has Mr trump made it clear when HE wants to re-open (despite going against advice), yes. Have any states made it clear when they intend to exit the lock down, no.

That's a very interesting thing

Who are these states talking to? you would think the president of the United States would be getting the best possible advice and research handed to him

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't imagine the head of states, Governors? is it, have the same team of experts around them or direct lines of information

So who are Governors to say what's best in a situation like this? or would Trump be passing on all information

If Trump is passing on information I'm sure it's one that suits his narrative, whether a fair and accurate representation or not

Could you imagine the opposite way? if the President said the country needed to be locked down and most of the Governors said "nahh I don't think that's best, I think we should stay open x"

 

[starbird]

I very much doubt you can pull out a single post of mine that is misleading.

Those points you've made are meaningless because you're pulling information without structure or meaning behind them. You've not done any research, not even on a basic level.

"Is the US making it clear when they intend to exit the lock down ? yes" - That's a lie for starters. Trump stated what he wanted to happen but it's not actually his decision or in his power to make that happen. He's had to backtrack on what he said because initially he believed he had more control than he does. Has Mr trump made it clear when HE wants to re-open (despite going against advice), yes. Have any states made it clear when they intend to exit the lock down, no.

"has the US done more testing, yes" - That on it's own is quite meaningless. Countries don't have the same infrastructures for starters, so there will always be variance. It's hard to compare the testing rates of the UK vs US as the numbers we're given don't tend to include vital information like that. Again, you're pulling on numbers that haven't had time to be consolidated into anything meaningful. You also have to consider things like what tests are being used. It could turn out that a large percentage of the US testing is inaccurate which then means the tests are irrelevant. If tests are rushed the US may be able to go through tests like no-mans business and 'show' numbers stating masses of testing, but rushed tests might mean lots of false information tests.

"Has the US provided more PPE to their health care staff ?" - Again, numbers like that on their own is meaningless data. You have to consider things like infastructure.

Don't get me wrong, some of what your saying may turn out to be valid points. However, you can't state that beforehand. That's immoral and misleading.

That's like saying "Well the UK is staying in lockdown for longer, so we will have less deaths overall than the US" - It's impossible to say that, as there's no data to support that, no consideration to other factors and would be dishonest.

 

[Murray]

I guess it somewhat makes sense to have that extra layer of decision making? Although then you get into an issue of how deep of a decision layer is ever right

Most countries take on new emergency powers in a crisis

Just interesting you can shut down a country easier than you can open it up

 

[JMI]

Socialism for the rich.

 

[Admin]

Saying that masturbating once a day increases broadband speeds wouldn't make sense as they're completely different scientifically and don't interact with each other.

I'm not sure you are right, since lockdown my internet speeds have gone through the roof

 

[starbird]

9\10 who died in England and Wales had underlying illnesses

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783#comment_138868274

I'm sure Trauiner will state it is not factually correct as always but he can bring that up with the ONS or the BBC.

 

[Adam H]

9\10 who died in England and Wales had underlying illnesses

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783#comment_138868274

I'm sure Trauiner will state it is not factually correct as always but he can bring that up with the ONS or the BBC.

Still scary, I'm sure there is very high percentage of people in the UK with underlying health issues without even knowing they have them.

 

[Siusaidh]

Underlying health conditions is a wide umbrella term. It extends beyond the million or so people who are being shielded. Probably 25-30% of the population has an underlying condition, ranging from asthma to high blood pressure. The 90% implicit in the 'underlying' category are not people who would have died anyway. Almost all of us must have loved ones in this category, and indeed it almost certainly includes several people who post here.

Even when in due course healthier and younger groups are released from lockdown, there will still be no obvious exit strategy for millions of people (not just those being 'shielded') who will be dangerously vulnerable to the virus and will be advised to remain isolated. At this stage, unless effective anti-virals can be developed, vaccination may be the only escape route for many of these people. Of course, at this stage it is too early to know.

 

[newguy]

9\10 who died in England and Wales had underlying illnesses

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783#comment_138868274

I'm sure Trauiner will state it is not factually correct as always but he can bring that up with the ONS or the BBC.

This stands to reason as if someone has health issues, they're less able to fend off various illnesses. I have a couple of relatives with COPD and as depressing a thought as it is, I don't like their chances if they get this. It's worth noting that 'underlying illness' also included things like diabetes too, so it's quite a broad definition.

I notice that heart issues are also a real red flag. This would make sense as some of the latest studies imply that covid-19 can damage the heart (so if someone already has heart issues that's a real problem). I fear that a depressing aspect of the current time that we're not even factoring in yet, is that a certain percentage of people who 'recover' from covid-19 possibly have lasting damage to the lungs and other organs.

 

[diablo]

Underlying health conditions is a wide umbrella term. It extends beyond the million or so people who are being shielded. Probably 25-30% of the population has an underlying condition, ranging from asthma to high blood pressure..

In terms of the adult population, it will be considerably higher. 31% of UK adults are clinically obese for starters.

 

[starbird]

I'd recommend looking into immune boosting supplements as well as a healthy diet and exercise. Pharma won't do research on natural products like Chaga mushrooms etc (no money in it for them) but on the limited clinical trials done they show some potent immune boosting potential https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1160565/

I take Chaga and feel better for it. Of course do your own research if this interests you. If you take Vit C try and avoid the ascorbic acid variety and get the AMLA version. More expensive but higher quality and natural. There are a range of vitamins you need take to take in order to get the benefits of other vitamins e.g K2 helps if you're taking D3 etc.

 

[newguy]

I'd recommend looking into immune boosting supplements as well as a healthy diet and exercise. Pharma won't do research on natural products like Chaga mushrooms etc (no money in it for them) but on the limited clinical trials done they show some potent immune boosting potential https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1160565/

I take Chaga and feel better for it. Of course do your own research if this interests you. If you take Vit C try and avoid the ascorbic acid variety and get the AMLA version. More expensive but higher quality and natural. There are a range of vitamins you need take to take in order to get the benefits of other vitamins e.g K2 helps if you're taking D3 etc.

I have to think that there may be genetic aspects to why some people are affected terribly by covid-19 and others just breeze through it, or don't even know they have it. That said, I do agree that it makes sense to try to boost your immune system and have a level of fitness. Losing weight where someone is obese, not smoking, and definitely things like as you say Vitamin D3 as a deficiency is seriously common.

 

[deluxedomains]

I have been reading and following this thread for those that dont believe covid is real please watch following clip and stay well people.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...h-covid-19-a-survivors-graphic-story-11973549

 

[LCHappy]

I have been reading and following this thread for those that dont believe covid is real please watch following clip and stay well people.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...h-covid-19-a-survivors-graphic-story-11973549

Loads of bad illnesses are real, we don't shut the economy down for any of them.

 

[diablo]

If you take Vit C try and avoid the ascorbic acid variety and get the AMLA version. More expensive but higher quality and natural. There are a range of vitamins you need take to take in order to get the benefits of other vitamins e.g K2 helps if you're taking D3 etc.

Vitamin C is ascorbic acid.

Amla is a fruit which is rich in Vitamin C, but also many other micronutrients. I take it daily in powder form.