Corona please read very important

[BREWSTERS]

I haven't looked into that guy in a few years but last time I checked he was known as pretty much a fraud and conspiracy theorist. Mainly because he has no proof behind anything he states as a fact. He used to (might be different now) point to studies that are debunked by other people in the field.

I'd invite anyone interested to look into Barrie Trower for themselves, he is in numerous vids on YT, and make their own mind up about him. And then compare what he says to these guys.

 

[AssetDomains]

If these numbers were correct, then hospitals would be seriously overcrowded...a 50% increase in deaths relevant to the average?

Can anyone here who works for the NHS hands on, confirm any hospitals have these increases? As I've said previously, my partners hospital is a designated CV one - any suspected cases get sent there (from 3 large general hostpitals) and the numbers of patients showing symptoms (symptoms which are not unique to CV BTW) are roughly similar to what would normally be seen across the three sites.

Seriously what will it take for you to start believing this thing is real. More people died in week 14 of the year than have ever died in any week 14 since the ONS started measuring the statistics 6k more than the 5 year average if it wasn't covid related what do you think caused 6k extra people to die.
Yes I work in the NHS
Are A&E numbers down in my trust. Yes minor injury attendance has dropped of a cliff
Are the number of Chest X-rays roughly similar to normal. Yes
Is the condition of these patients the same NO far more of these X-rays are now needed portably we are being called to far more MET calls to people in acute respiratory distress on high flow oxygen on the wards. Seeing far more people attend A&E in acute respiratory distress Get called to far more calls to check intubation tube position in ITU/HDU. Seeing far more people being taken to morgue just days after attending.
Is the hospital overflowing no because the government had a huge drive to discharge people as soon as possible. Potentially to early looking at the discrepancy in the extra deaths in week 14
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...hmg-letter-hospital-discharge-guidance-v3.pdf
Am I worried other serious conditions are being missed and people dying prematurely because they are to scared to attend or don't want to bother A&E during this crisis Yes.
Was the lockdown a bad idea looking at the figures definitely not imagine the carnage this thing would have caused left unchecked.

 

[starbird]

That is not what I'm talking about. You're just acting dumb now or have a lack of basic understanding of what is being said.

likewise

 

[LCHappy]

Did you read the BBC article 6000 extra people died in in the 14 week than did than did on average in the same week for the last 5 years not 1.
Massively more than any week 14 since the ons started recording statistics 15 years ago. 3475 linked to covid.
If these statistics don't convince people this thing is real and killing people prematurely I don't know what will

I don't think you can say that until 6 months worth data is in. These people may have died anyway, maybe 2-3 months early so if that is true then the death rate will fall well below average at some point.

Do you shut down the economy to give people an extra day? 2 days? 3 days? 3 months?

At what point do you think it is acceptable? I'm not having a go, I'd just like to get an idea of what people think is worth it.

 

[Siusaidh]

Is the hospital overflowing no because the government had a huge drive to discharge people as soon as possible.

PLUS: large numbers of people have had non-essential surgery cancelled/postponed, which has freed up hospital beds, including some heart surgery which can contribute to some (usually quite short) stays in ICU.

 

[newguy]

Did you read the BBC article 6000 extra people died in in the 14 week than did than did on average in the same week for the last 5 years not 1.
Massively more than any week 14 since the ons started recording statistics 15 years ago. 3475 linked to covid.
If these statistics don't convince people this thing is real and killing people prematurely I don't know what will

The impact in care homes looks like to be devastating across the board too: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...are-homes/ar-BB12Auy7?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=UE09DHP

If I had a parent or grand parent in a care home right now I'd be tempted to pull them out. Otherwise it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[AssetDomains]

I don't think you can say that until 6 months worth data is in. These people may have died anyway, maybe 2-3 months early so if that is true then the death rate will fall well below average at some point.

Do you shut down the economy to give people an extra day? 2 days? 3 days? 3 months?

At what point do you think it is acceptable? I'm not having a go, I'd just like to get an idea of what people think is worth it.

I think maybe your missing my point I'm just saying for people think this all been made as a conspiracy theory. These figures surely say covid is definitely real.
I'm sure now the conspiracy will move to bill gates and the illuminati created covid in a lab to grab power.
As for the economy the lockdown merits weren't about these 6000 poor souls. Its about there not being 60'000 - 120'000 extra people that didn't die that week.
If you accept the scientific estimates that 250'000 to 500'000 would have died if we had done nothing and now they think 20'000.
If that many people had died in a week the NHS would have been crippled and it wouldn't have just been largely the elderly who passed.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Seriously what will it take for you to start believing this thing is real. More people died in week 14 of the year than have ever died in any week 14 since the ONS started measuring the statistics 6k more than the 5 year average if it wasn't covid related what do you think caused 6k extra people to die.
Yes I work in the NHS
Are A&E numbers down in my trust. Yes minor injury attendance has dropped of a cliff
Are the number of Chest X-rays roughly similar to normal. Yes
Is the condition of these patients the same NO far more of these X-rays are now needed portably we are being called to far more MET calls to people in acute respiratory distress on high flow oxygen on the wards. Seeing far more people attend A&E in acute respiratory distress Get called to far more calls to check intubation tube position in ITU/HDU. Seeing far more people being taken to morgue just days after attending.
Is the hospital overflowing no because the government had a huge drive to discharge people as soon as possible. Potentially to early looking at the discrepancy in the extra deaths in week 14
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...hmg-letter-hospital-discharge-guidance-v3.pdf
Am I worried other serious conditions are being missed and people dying prematurely because they are to scared to attend or don't want to bother A&E during this crisis Yes.
Was the lockdown a bad idea looking at the figures definitely not imagine the carnage this thing would have caused left unchecked.

Thanks for the insight.

Is your hospital a designated CV one, ie are cases being referred there that might otherwise have go to a different hospital in the area?

 

[diablo]

 

[Edwin]

In data released on 13 April, NHS England declared 681 people had died in hospital of coronavirus on 4 April.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

However, that total death toll was actually released by NHS England in stages.

5 April: 97 people were reported as having died on 4 April
6 April: 188 more people were reported as having died on 4 April
7 Apr: 179 ditto
8 Apr: 93 ditto
9 Apr: 47 ditto
10 Apr: 39 ditto
11 Apr: 28 ditto
12 Apr: 4 ditto
13 Apr: 5 ditto

In other words, it's taken almost 10 days for the stats to "stabilise" so that we get a close-to-true picture of how many people actually died in hospital of COVID-19 on 4 April itself.

And that sadly means that the 11,329 reported hospital deaths (total for the UK as a whole, from yesterday's update) is undercounting reality by many thousands. We won't know for close to 2 weeks what the actual figure was for yesterday.

This is an observation not a criticism of how the NHS are having to compile this data. But we should brace ourselves for the numbers to outstrip the already grim headlines.

 

[newguy]

And if anything, rather than the perception that the numbers are being inflated, as we learn today large numbers of suspected covid deaths are likely not even included in current stats. Logically I'd say that the shocking lack of PPE availability leads to a downplaying of the reality, as it's easier to brush it under the carpet that acknowledge unacceptable failings.

 

[AssetDomains]

Thanks for the insight.

Is your hospital a designated CV one, ie are cases being referred there that might otherwise have go to a different hospital in the area?

I don't think the Merseyside region have designated any one hospital as a covid centre ourselves The royal and Aintree all take covid patients. I know friends in specialist trusts in the region have them in there hospitals as well although they don't take them on as emergency cases these are people who have probably acquired it in hospital.

 

[AssetDomains]

I think maybe your missing my point I'm just saying for people like Brewsters who thinks this all been made up to bring about a one world government. These figures surely say covid is definitely real.
I'm sure now the conspiracy will move to bill gates and the illuminati created covid in a lab to grab power.
As for the economy the lockdown merits weren't about these 6000 poor souls. Its about there not being 60'000 - 120'000 extra people that didn't die that week.
If you accept the scientific estimates that 250'000 to 500'000 would have died if we had done nothing and now they think 20'000.
If that many people had died in a week the NHS would have been crippled and it wouldn't have just been largely the elderly who passed.

Actual only 3700 odd were assigned to Covid by ONS but if you trust the scientific modelling and say the lookdown will decrease deaths by at least a factor of 10 its still at least 37'000 souls spared last week for the sacrifices were all making

 

[anthony]

I don't think the Merseyside region have designated any one hospital as a covid centre ourselves The royal and Aintree all take covid patients. I know friends in specialist trust in the region have them in there hospitals as well although they don't take them on as emergency cases these are people who have probably acquired it in hospital.

I was under the impression that Whiston is one.

 

[AssetDomains]

I was under the impression that Whiston is one.

Yes Whiston take them as well I don't think there is one designated centre in are region as it seems they are doing in the northeast

 

[Siusaidh]

My analysis is that the government initially favoured 'herd immunity' rather than lock down, but when confronted with best scientific advice that this could lead to hundreds of thousands of additional deaths, they bottled out.

Point 1. That delay before opting for lock down may have caused significant extra deaths. Countries that locked down quickly, and accompanied it with deep-contact testing of those associated with known virus holders, are likely to have significantly fewer deaths in the end. (Time will tell.)

Point 2. Failure to act quickly also led to the UK 'missing the bus' for enough tests at the time they were going to be most useful.

Point 3. There was longer-term government failure to prepare adequately for pandemic in terms of vital supplies. The possibility of a pandemic was a known risk.

Point 4. The death toll this afternoon is likely to rise above 12,000 and as these numbers have a lag running up to 2 weeks behind actual mortality, it is quite possible that mortality figures will remain around 800-1000 for the next 10 days at least (if not higher). The fact they don't go higher will be because of adherence to lock down. I suspect the mortality toll in hospitals alone will be over 25,000 by the end of April.

Point 5. It's beyond clear and evident that very large number of additional deaths are occurring now, compared to past years. The expert opinion of those trained in healthcare, and actually witnessing what's happening on the front-line, is (applying all their years of experience) that this is an exceptional crisis, and one that is being caused by the spread of the virus.

Point 6. This is not part of a plan for a 'one world government'. It is a human tragedy unfolding across the world. It is best addressed by practical healthcare and distancing, and by a clear-headed recognition of the very real danger of this virus.

Point 7. I am desperately concerned about the potential impact this virus may yet have on poor and developing nations with insufficient resources, and what that may mean in terms of human suffering, death from the virus, food supply issues, and grassroots disorder arising out of desperation.

Listen to the maximum number of experts, and the probably 95% viewpoint of trained healthcare professionals, that this worldwide phenomenon and virus is causing so many deaths. It is so incredibly frustrating, when decent people are risking or sacrificing their lives for the sake of others, to read views of people who are chasing and advocating theories that imply this virus isn't killing people on the scale it is.

 

[newguy]

My analysis is that the government initially favoured 'herd immunity' rather than lock down, but when confronted with best scientific advice that this could lead to hundreds of thousands of additional deaths, they bottled out.

Point 1. That delay before opting for lock down may have caused significant extra deaths. Countries that locked down quickly, and accompanied it with deep-contact testing of those associated with known virus holders, are likely to have significantly fewer deaths in the end. (Time will tell.)

Point 2. Failure to act quickly also led to the UK 'missing the bus' for enough tests at the time they were going to be most useful.

Point 3. There was longer-term government failure to prepare adequately for pandemic in terms of vital supplies. The possibility of a pandemic was a known risk.

Point 4. The death toll this afternoon is likely to rise above 12,000 and as these numbers have a lag running up to 2 weeks behind actual mortality, it is quite possible that mortality figures will remain around 800-1000 for the next 10 days at least (if not higher). The fact they don't go higher will be because of adherence to lock down. I suspect the mortality toll in hospitals alone will be over 25,000 by the end of April.

Point 5. It's beyond clear and evident that very large number of additional deaths are occurring now, compared to past years. The expert opinion of those trained in healthcare, and actually witnessing what's happening on the front-line, is (applying all their years of experience) that this is an exceptional crisis, and one that is being caused by the spread of the virus.

Point 6. This is not part of a plan for a 'one world government'. It is a human tragedy unfolding across the world. It is best addressed by practical healthcare and distancing, and by a clear-headed recognition of the very real danger of this virus.

Point 7. I am desperately concerned about the potential impact this virus may yet have on poor and developing nations with insufficient resources, and what that may mean in terms of human suffering, death from the virus, food supply issues, and grassroots disorder arising out of desperation.

Listen to the maximum number of experts, and the probably 95% viewpoint of trained healthcare professionals, that this worldwide phenomenon and virus is causing so many deaths. It is so incredibly frustrating, when decent people are risking or sacrificing their lives for the sake of others, to read views of people who are chasing and advocating theories that imply this virus isn't killing people on the scale it is.

A good summing up of the situation. I'd add that due to the initial lockdown delay maybe herd immunity is still the only show in town (in that so many people already have it now that once we ease restrictions it's bound to flare up again).

How long immunity even lasts though is also a big unknown and pivotal I'd say. If it lasts for years then there's a good chance that covid-19 will peter out entirely before long. However, if it's say a few months, it could be the case that this is something we're perpetually dealing with, well without a vaccine or more effective treatments arriving. Hopefully effective treatments will eventually emerge. The necessity of it and number of ongoing trials are all factors that encourage progress.

 

[AssetDomains]

Interesting twitter thread that's been widely shared documents some of the government miss management
https://twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

 

[Murray]

Point 1. That delay before opting for lock down may have caused significant extra deaths. Countries that locked down quickly, and accompanied it with deep-contact testing of those associated with known virus holders, are likely to have significantly fewer deaths in the end. (Time will tell..

An early lockdown seems like it would delay things not prevent them; as soon as you started to ease restrictions it would have made the whole initial lockdown pointless

 

[starbird]

This reply didn't age well.

None or your replies have aged well, your point is ?

Regarding the deaths, yes there will be more unreported. There will also be deaths included which coronavirus was not the cause the person simply had it in their system.