UK Leaves the EU - What happens next?

[bonusmedia]

"Almost inconsequential"? With inflation running at say, 2% a year for the last 5 years, a nurse who's got 1% pay rise over the same time is effectively getting 9% less than they were 5 years ago. That's not inconsequential in my book - it can be the difference between getting by, and struggling.



Yes, in the form of government issued currency...not issued by a private company. That way our tax money wouldn't be going to said private company in interest.
This would not lead to a reduction in credit or living standards.



You mentioned the supply drying up...I don't know why.

Some inflation is essential. It's nowhere near 2%, it's been hovering fairly close to 0% for a year or so and in recent years wage growth has begun to outpace inflation again. That is now at risk.

Nurses receiving poor pay rises is a bad thing. That is a result of government policy.

A 100% reserve system would radically reduce the ability of whoever issues credit to do so. This should be plainly obvious.

I cannot claim to be an expert or understand all the vagaries of banking, but I can refer to experts who know much better than I do. We have made progress as a species by specialising - not by watching conspiracy videos on youtube!

 

[bonusmedia]

Blackmail...nice.

They have more to lose than to gain....how do you think businesses in the 27 countries feel about that?

Nonsense, how is re-stating the rules that everyone signed up to blackmail?

It is us (or rather Boris) asking for special treatment and not a surprise that they're saying no.

They have considerably more to lose from the breakdown of the EU than any individual trade deal

 

[bonusmedia]

You might know him by his Parliamentary name; Tim Who

Gimpy, apparently you've been to the Farage School of Diplomacy. At some point you have to stop mocking people you disagree with and actually make deals with them

 

[gimpydog]

It was not possible for labour MPs to rig the ballot.

OK. So they manipulated the nominations to get him on the ballot. Iirc, Margaret Beckett called it "the biggest mistake of my political career"

I believe it is quite fair to have another election. If the outcome is the same, so be it.

So re-run the ballot once, but not twice? Why stop there? Just keep going 'til we get the 'right' result.

What has he done wrong - My POV would be being an ineffective leader.

Well, if that's the criteria, how come Gordon Brown & Ed Milliband lasted so long?

 

[Edwin]

Genuinely fascinating debate, because I have never seen politicians of opposing partners in such respectful, harmonious agreement. Speaker after speaker (from all parties) is very calmly dissecting and eviscerating the irresponsible promises and pledges put forward by Vote Leave, and everyone else is listening politely with no jeering or point-scoring.

If only the debate that's unfolding right now had been held before the debate - it is highlighting at great length the many, many issues now facing the economy following the outcome of the referendum.

 

[VSC]

Blackmail...nice.

They have more to lose than to gain....how do you think businesses in the 27 countries feel about that?

It's going to be down to negotiations. If the EU want that as part of an agreement, well it is their right.
Just as when the UK makes trade agreements with other countries, they will make demands that the other side may see as unfair.
It's negotiation.

 

[bonusmedia]

OK. So they manipulated the nominations to get him on the ballot.

They nominated him. If that's 'manipulating the nominations' then voting leave is 'manipulating the referendum'

 

[VSC]

OK. So they manipulated the nominations to get him on the ballot. Iirc, Margaret Beckett called it "the biggest mistake of my political career"

Think you need to read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2015
He got the lowest vote among MPs.
Getting someone on the nominations list is absolutely no guarantee of winning the leadership election.

So re-run the ballot once, but not twice? Why stop there? Just keep going 'til we get the 'right' result.

When the vast majority of the PLP declares no confidence in the leader, I believe it IS absolutely fair to have a new leadership election.

Well, if that's the criteria, how come Gordon Brown & Ed Milliband lasted so long?

But that is not the issue is it - they retained the support of the PLP.

 

[Toonz]

Well, if that's the criteria, how come Gordon Brown & Ed Milliband lasted so long?

They didn't pose the same threat to the established world order that Corbyn does

It's a fair point though. Almost no-one saw Miliband as Prime Ministerial (apart from that Twitter schoolgirl and her unhealthy preoccupation) yet they didn't go after him with the same zeal.

Corbyn may be well out of sync with the traditional Labour base with his John Pilger-esque views on international politics and immigration, but he's actually more in tune with the Labour base on austerity and rights/protections.

Whereas Miliband just seemed like a watered-down Blairite incapable of doing anything other than emitting a string of slogans and focus group approved phrases, but doing it really badly.

The hapless, troubled Brown just seemed like he'd been the victim of years of psychological warfare. Another disaster that Labour should have averted.

None of them seemed to posses what we might call the human touch. I suppose in Corbyn's case, what's different now is the extremely febrile political times we're suddenly living through with the prospect not of a centerist Cameron Tory government but a more right wing one. That will have sharpened a few minds.

 

[gimpydog]

At some point you have to stop mocking people you disagree with and actually make deals with them

Farron wants to re-run the referendum. Imho, that shows utter contempt for the democratic will of the people & is worthy of mockery - at the very least. If it were up to me, I would throw him in the Tower.

The fact that he incites intolerance and actively encourages people to rise up & protest at the ballot result, as he did last night outside Parliament, proves what a hypocritical wanker he is.

"We are all sinners". At least I agree with him on that.

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[bonusmedia]

Farron wants to re-run the referendum. Imho, that shows utter contempt for the democratic will of the people & is worthy of mockery - at the very least. If it were up to me, I would throw him in the Tower.

The fact that he incites intolerance and actively encourages people to rise up & protest at the ballot result, as he did last night outside Parliament, proves what a hypocritical wanker he is.

"We are all sinners". At least I agree with him on that.

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I thought he wanted to fight the election on a platform of returning to the EU?

If the people vote on the basis of lies that are then shown to be lies, do they not have the right to change their mind?

If anyone has incited intolerance it's Farage

 

[gimpydog]

They nominated him. If that's 'manipulating the nominations' then voting leave is 'manipulating the referendum'

Are you re-writing history now?

“The moronic MPs who nominated Jeremy Corbyn to ‘have a debate’ need their heads felt. They should be ashamed of themselves. They’re morons.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-the-labour-leadership-contest-10406527.html

You might recognise some of those "moronic MPs'" names.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Some inflation is essential. It's nowhere near 2%, it's been hovering fairly close to 0% for a year or so and in recent years wage growth has begun to outpace inflation again. That is now at risk.

Nurses receiving poor pay rises is a bad thing. That is a result of government policy.

2011 - 4%
2012 - 3.6%
2013 - 2.6%
2014 - 2.0%
2015 - 0.3%

Average for the 5 years I mentioned = 2.5%

A 100% reserve system would radically reduce the ability of whoever issues credit to do so. This should be plainly obvious.

NOT, when the currency of a nation is issued by a government, it creates stability.

With the current system whereby money is issued for debt...there is only one possible outcome - can you say what that is?

I cannot claim to be an expert or understand all the vagaries of banking, but I can refer to experts who know much better than I do. We have made progress as a species by specialising - not by watching conspiracy videos on youtube!

No conspiracy here. Nothing up for debate, this is how the money system is - it's in everybody's interest to learn it. To once again paraphrase Henry Ford; "If the people realised how money was created, there'd be a revolution by the morning".

Once we get clear of the EU we are free to reform our money supply...not that any politicians will.

 

[bonusmedia]

Are you re-writing history now?

No, simply correcting your mistake

 

[gimpydog]

But that is not the issue is it - they retained the support of the PLP.

I cannot understand why the MPs/PLP are so out of touch with their supporters/members, both on the referendum & Corbyn.

You might question that, but who was right last Thursday? They should put down their Twitters & get out of London more.

Almost no-one saw Miliband as Prime Ministerial (apart from that Twitter schoolgirl

Yep., & she turned out to be a plant, a friend of a friend.

he's actually more in tune with the Labour base

Ah, at last. Someone agrees with me.

No, simply correcting your mistake

It was only eleven months ago. Can't you remember? They manipulated the nominations to get him on the ballot. Jeez, this is hard sometimes.

Margaret Beckett:
"I was moron to nominate Jeremy Corbyn"
"We were being urged as MPs to have a field of candidates,"

As many as 12 of the MPs who nominated him actually support other candidates but lent him their support to get him on the ballot paper.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Genuinely fascinating debate, because I have never seen politicians of opposing partners in such respectful, harmonious agreement. Speaker after speaker (from all parties) is very calmly dissecting and eviscerating the irresponsible promises and pledges put forward by Vote Leave, and everyone else is listening politely with no jeering or point-scoring.

If only the debate that's unfolding right now had been held before the debate - it is highlighting at great length the many, many issues now facing the economy following the outcome of the referendum.

Torys and Labour are two sides of the same coin. The only reason they exist is to give people the impression of choice. And as I keep saying, they both answer to the same master, and it isn't the people of this country.

Corbyn became leader of Labour because people were sick of Blair-style-Labour carried on through Brown and Milliband. Now it's the Blairites who are pushing him out...he's not one of them.

 

[bonusmedia]

I cannot understand why the MPs/PLP are so out of touch with their supporters/members, both on the referendum & Corbyn.

You might question that, but who was right last Thursday? They should put down their Twitters & get out of London more.



Yep., & she turned out to be a plant, a friend of a friend.



Ah, at last. Someone agrees with me.



It was only eleven months ago. Can't you remember? They manipulated the nominations to get him on the ballot. Jeez, this is hard sometimes.

Margaret Beckett:
"I was moron to nominate Jeremy Corbyn"
"We were being urged as MPs to have a field of candidates,"

As many as 12 of the MPs who nominated him actually support other candidates but lent him their support to get him on the ballot paper.

Nominating a candidate is not 'manipulating the nominations'.

Some people voted leave as a protest against the government. They were not 'manipulating the referendum'.

You're the one who wanted pedantic adherence to the strict meaning of words

 

[bonusmedia]

2011 - 4%
2012 - 3.6%
2013 - 2.6%
2014 - 2.0%
2015 - 0.3%

Average for the 5 years I mentioned = 2.5%



NOT, when the currency of a nation is issued by a government, it creates stability.

With the current system whereby money is issued for debt...there is only one possible outcome - can you say what that is?



No conspiracy here. Nothing up for debate, this is how the money system is - it's in everybody's interest to learn it. To once again paraphrase Henry Ford; "If the people realised how money was created, there'd be a revolution by the morning".

Once we get clear of the EU we are free to reform our money supply...not that any politicians will.

I think it's fair to say that in the 70 odd years since Henry Ford may have said that we went from being a nation where the vast majority were poor tenants to a property-owning majority - and saw the greatest rise in living standards there has ever been. Our flawed banking system facilitated that.

As I say I'm no expert and I'm happy to learn more if you have credible sources

 

[Toonz]

Now it's the Blairites who are pushing him out...he's not one of them.

Thing is, it's not just the Blairites resigning. There are MPs to the left of the party in the mix. Even Pat Glass who was only put in post 2 days ago has resigned. The complaints are much the same: performance, leadership skills, ability to reach out to the county. It's a fundamental misreading to put this all down to Blairites.

 

[bonusmedia]

No. But arranging for nominations to be "lent" to a candidate, who would not normally receive those nominations, in order to meet the minimum nomination threshold & gain them a place on the ballot, is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33625612



























Anyway, I can't keep explaining things to you,
I've got better thing to do with my time...

View attachment 1274​

You're right, this is a pointless argument, a bit like claiming 'access to the single market' doesn't mean access to any of the benefits