UK Leaves the EU - What happens next?

[Edwin]

The poorest always suffer most in an economic downturn! Always have, always will. That's not vindictive. It's not nasty. It's not cruel. It's just a fact.

Why? Because they have least leeway to weather changes in their circumstances, be it higher prices, job cuts, further austerity measures etc.

Again, this is simply an analytical statement of fact.

 

[Edwin]

I think it's worth going back to the title of this thread:

What happens next?

So the evolution of the financial markets, job cuts, political changes, etc. all fall under the topic. As does what happens in the runup to Article 50 and after it is activated, what happens to UK nationals in the EU, EU nationals in the UK, etc.

Any real, actual, fact-based benefits/positives that are occurring as a result of Brexit would also fit the thread topic. I've yet to see much of this, but perhaps it will come in due course.

But hypothetical arm-waving about "sovereignty" doesn't. Not until it either materialises as actual "stronger sovereignty" or gets forgotten as an issue.

Let's try and stick to facts and figures and data and stats as much as possible. There's a wealth of material out there, and more emerging daily as Brexit bites deeper...

 

[websaway]

You're glossing over the fact that most things the Leave campaign promised voters coming into the referendum won't happen. Either because they were out and out lies, or because they made over-commitments (they promised stuff that would cost approximately 11x as much as any potential saving from leaving) or because the "reality" is different (like the "control of immigration" which is no longer equated to a "drop in immigration" and may well not happen at all because of the need to keep freedom of movement.

And you're also wrong in your statement about experts. Yes, what they predicted is coming true. But the Leave campaign talked themselves hoarse in their attempts to convince voters not to listen to, believe or trust the experts. And polling backs this up: most Leave voters trusted NO sources of expertise whatsoever.

So the fact that the experts is right is not a vindication of Leave's position, it's a vindication of Remain's!

Yes but I am speaking from a position of strength ie we voted to leave.
Whatever the chances are now of controlling immigration there would have been none whatsoever if we had remained.

Leavers voted despite the experts opinion not because some people doubted the credibility of that opinion. If you can't believe the chancellor and the BOE who can you believe.
The "out and out lies" thing is wearing a bit thin, it's a bit like arguing what happened in a football match after your team has lost.
I would not keep spinning the situation to suit your objectives, you are just flogging a dead horse.

 

[websaway]

The poorest always suffer most in an economic downturn! Always have, always will. That's not vindictive. It's not nasty. It's not cruel. It's just a fact.

Why? Because they have least leeway to weather changes in their circumstances, be it higher prices, job cuts, further austerity measures etc.

Again, this is simply an analytical statement of fact.

It's actually not a fact, it used to be the case it no longer is. The well off are often hit hardest in a recession,they are often highly geared and have more to lose. We live in a society where when you have little or nothing to lose you are protected by a safety net. It is a vindictive threat and you should not use it , it shows a particular toff status. It will hurt you more than it will hurt me is a pompous attitude. I think it's an attitude that precedes a revolution.

 

[Edwin]

The Leave vote doesn't magically change any other aspect of reality!

Brexit won't magically make the UK less poor because 52% of the voters chose it.

It won't magically make hard negotiations easy, or long negotiations quick.

It won't magically deliver both free trade and restrictions on movement.

It won't magically build hundreds of thousands of houses, raise wages, slash inequality, raise living standards. (These are all things that successive governments have failed to do - it is their failing, nothing to do with the EU)

All the Leave vote has done is make a statement: "we want to leave the EU."

But it has done nothing - absolutely nothing whatsoever - to make the enacting of that decision any less dangerous or less damaging.

 

[Edwin]

It's actually not a fact, it used to be the case it no longer is. The well off are often hit hardest in a recession,they are often highly geared and have more to lose. We live in a society where when you have little or nothing to lose you are protected by a safety net. It is a vindictive threat and you should not use it , it shows a particular toff status. It will hurt you more than it will hurt me is a pompous attitude. I think it's an attitude that precedes a revolution.

If you refuse to believe data and statistics there is quite literally no point in debating with you any more.

I ignored you in the old thread. From
here on, I will ignore you on this one too. It's just not worth it. Sorry.

However, I'll gladly keep the debate going with anyone on either side who is willing to allow the developing facts of the situation into their position.

 

[websaway]

I think it's worth going back to the title of this thread:

What happens next?

So the evolution of the financial markets, job cuts, political changes, etc. all fall under the topic. As does what happens in the runup to Article 50 and after it is activated, what happens to UK nationals in the EU, EU nationals in the UK, etc.

Any real, actual, fact-based benefits/positives that are occurring as a result of Brexit would also fit the thread topic. I've yet to see much of this, but perhaps it will come in due course.

But hypothetical arm-waving about "sovereignty" doesn't. Not until it either materialises as actual "stronger sovereignty" or gets forgotten as an issue.

Let's try and stick to facts and figures and data and stats as much as possible. There's a wealth of material out there, and more emerging daily as Brexit bites deeper...

The only thing that is not hypothetical is the issue of Sovereignty.
Everything else is guess work. It's impossible to tell if sentiment away from the pound , other than for short term speculation, will continue.
It's impossible to tell if the threats of businesses moving away from the uk will materialise.
It's impossible to tell how the negotiations to depart from the EU will pan out .
You can analyse until you are blue in the face but you won't find answers to these questions with figures and what you define as facts because, it doesn't work like that. When China devalue their currency it ads a whole new dimension to an already moving argument.
The only thing that is a constant is that we stopped the erosion of our sovereignty. That was not important to you and that is why you are unable to factor it in to your thinking.

 

[websaway]

The Leave vote doesn't magically change any other aspect of reality!

Brexit won't magically make the UK less poor because 52% of the voters chose it.

It won't magically make hard negotiations easy, or long negotiations quick.

It won't magically deliver both free trade and restrictions on movement.

It won't magically build hundreds of thousands of houses, raise wages, slash inequality, raise living standards. (These are all things that successive governments have failed to do - it is their failing, nothing to do with the EU)

All the Leave vote has done is make a statement: "we want to leave the EU."

But it has done nothing - absolutely nothing whatsoever - to make the enacting of that decision any less dangerous or less damaging.

Which bit of, the majority of the UK do not want to be part of a united states of Europe, can you not quite get hold of ?
All the things successive government failed to do would have been compounded by an increase in population the size of Birmingham every 3 years, forever. Is that so hard to understand.
If I live in a pit, it's my pit, don't send other people to live in it with me, it only makes my pit more uncomfortable, more intolerable. My pit can only accommodate so many people. Just because you can not relate to living in a pit does not make my pit less precious to me.

 

[Adam H]

If you refuse to believe data and statistics there is quite literally no point in debating with you any more.

I ignored you in the old thread. From
here on, I will ignore you on this one too. It's just not worth it.

However, I'll gladly keep the debate going with anyone on either side who is willing to allow the developing facts of the situation into their position.

Will be nice when Acorn starts being a Domain forum again, this is all very boring now.

@admin any chance we could install this : https://xenforo.com/community/resources/ignore-threads-nodes.2399/ Will save the most us completely ignoring the bar section and will allow individual threads to be ignored ?

 

[Admin]

Websaway has an unhealthy obsession with someone. This thread is not about personal forum relations but he cannot get past that....I'm closing the thread.