.uk And Drop Catching - Anti-gaming measures:

[Stephen]

Register now

I wonder how many instances there were of .{me|ltd|plc}.uk domain names registered prior to 23:59:59 on 28th October 2013 where no matching .co.uk or .org.uk registration existed. Those instances could be in the single digits. I don't believe Nominet has decided what to do in those limited circumstances. It would make any decision even more difficult if a matching instance of only a .me.uk and a .ltd.uk existed prior to 23:59:59 on 28th October 2013. Fortunately I doubt there are many instances of that at all.

If they registered the .co.uk now they would get the equivalent .uk at launch.

 

[Edwin]

If they registered the .co.uk now they would get the equivalent .uk at launch.

Not true. As per Nominet:

Who exactly will be offered the shorter .uk domain?

However, we want to look after our existing customers, so holders of the following domains will be offered the shorter .uk equivalent of their current domain (provided they maintain their current registration until they take up the .uk):

All domains that were current on 28th October 2013 where there was no other corresponding third level domain registered.

Where there are two or more domains with the same string:
the .co.uk will be offered the .uk equivalent, and
where there is no .co.uk, the .org.uk will be offered the .uk equivalent.
All .co.uk domains registered after 28th October 2013 and before the new domains are launched (as long as there is no ‘clash’ with any domains meeting the criteria above).

The text that I've highlighted in bold makes it clear(ish) that other extensions other than .co.uk/.org.uk have under very limited conditions the right to the .uk. If Nominet only included .co.uk and .org.uk in the "all domains" they wouldn't use the expression "two or more" further on, because you can't have "or more" if you're only talking about .co.uk and .org.uk.

 

[Stephen]

just in case

Not true. As per Nominet:

The text that I've highlighted in bold makes it clear(ish) that other extensions other than .co.uk/.org.uk have under very limited conditions the right to the .uk. If Nominet only included .co.uk and .org.uk in the "all domains" they wouldn't use the expression "two or more" further on, because you can't have "or more" if you're only talking about .co.uk and .org.uk.

Quite right, you are correct, thanks for pointing it out.

However as sometimes the Q & A have subtly changed over time, if I had a .me.uk and it was important to me to get the .uk and I was apparently the only UK tld registered on 28-10-2013 with that string, I would register the equivalent .co.uk to be more surer to get the .uk, just in case more different clarification can later.

 

[Edwin]

However as sometimes the Q & A have subtly changed over time, if I had a .me.uk and it was important to me to get the .uk and I was apparently the only UK tld registered on 28-10-2013 with that string, I would register the equivalent .co.uk to be more surer to get the .uk, just in case more different clarification can later.

That would be pretty weird though, wouldn't it? If I was that keen on the .uk but I'd been ignoring the .co.uk sitting available all along, and everyone else in the world kept on ignoring it too.

Not saying it can't happen, just trying to imagine how it could...

 

[Stephen]

Better email

That would be pretty weird though, wouldn't it? If I was that keen on the .uk but I'd been ignoring the .co.uk sitting available all along, and everyone else in the world kept on ignoring it too.

Not saying it can't happen, just trying to imagine how it could...

If I had an email address myname.me.uk but the .co.uk never appealed as it is for business BUT the myname.uk does appeal as it would make a much better email address for me.

I do accept that most UK surnames are registered at the .co.uk level so even with my example, it still would not be mainstream situation.

 

[ian]

Just catching up on all this! Can I check, there is a .co.uk domain that I've not registered because the .uk domain for it is the one I actually want. There isn't a .org.uk or .me.uk registered either, so if I register the .co.uk now, does that give me first refusal in summer 2014 on the basis that there was no contention at the time (today), or would it then become an issue if someone else registered the .org.uk or .me.uk between now and summer 2014?

What I'm trying to say would be does the uncontended status apply from the date I buy the .co.uk domain, or until the .uk's are available in summer next year?

 

[Edwin]

If nothing's registered now then if you register the .co.uk you will have the right to the .uk.

 

[Stephen]

definitive list ?

If nothing's registered now then if you register the .co.uk you will have the right to the .uk.

Is there a definitive list of all UK tld's that count ,to ensure nothing is registered or do we wait until February or the new Nominet checking tool is released in early 2014?

In V2 Nominet started with .sch.uk which was later removed
and originally omitted .net.uk.

As .ac.uk although not part of Nominet, did argue they should have rights?

 

[Stephen]

All domains that were current on 28th October 2013

Nothing other than co.uk and org.uk has been specifically referenced by Noninet, yet.

(from iPhone)

From Nominet Q & A

Q. Who exactly will be offered the shorter .uk domain?

A. Anyone can register a new .uk domain from launch.

However, we want to look after our existing customers, so holders of the following domains will be offered the shorter .uk equivalent of their current domain (provided they maintain their current registration until they take up the .uk):
1. All domains that were current on 28th October 2013 where there was no other corresponding third level domain registered.
2. Where there are two or more domains with the same string the .co.uk will be offered the .uk equivalent, and
where there is no .co.uk, the .org.uk will be offered the .uk equivalent.

3. All .co.uk domains registered after 28th October 2013 and before the new domains are launched (as long as there is no ‘clash’ with any domains meeting the criteria above).

I would take that means any other UK domain not just .co.uk and .org.uk?

 

[Systreg]

Still seeking thoughts/clarification on this, to use a previous example:

bluewidgets.org.uk is regged for 2 years on Sep 20th 2012

bluewidgets.co.uk drops and is caught on Nov 6th 2013

It appears from posts a few pages back that Nominet have updated their Q & A to say:

Q. What happens if a contested .org.uk and a .co.uk exist on the 28th of October (so the .co.uk gets the right to the .uk), but between then and the launch the .co.uk drops and is registered by someone else – who gets the right to the .uk?

A. The new .co.uk registrant gets the right to the .uk.

I take it that as bluewidgets.co.uk existed on Oct 28th, because it was still "renewal required" at that point, therefore, when it drops after the Oct 28th cut off point and is caught, this means that this domain and all other .co.uk's dropping after Oct 28th are guaranteed to get the .UK, as long as they existed before the 28th, even if needing renewal at that point?

I sent Nominet an email about it but obviously wont hear back until at least Monday.

 

[Systreg]

Forget whether a .co.uk domain name was previously registered or not. It's not actually relevant because any .co.uk registered after 28th October 2013 is entitled to the matching .uk domain name up until the launch date of .uk when .uk will go FCFS unless the matching .org.uk was also registered prior to 23:59:59 on 28th October 2013 and is still registered up until launch date.

Did you read my bluewidgets example incorrectly?

How is it not relevant that the .co.uk was previously registered or not? As stated in my example, a matching org.uk was also registered prior to Oct 28th, so it's a requirement that the .co.uk was registered prior to, or on Oct 28 up to 11:59:59 so that it "existed" at that cut off point, the example was:

bluewidgets.org.uk is regged for 2 years on Sep 20th 2012

bluewidgets.co.uk drops and is caught on Nov 6th 2013

any .co.uk registered after 28th October 2013 is entitled to the matching .uk domain name up until the launch date of .uk when .uk will go FCFS unless the matching .org.uk was also registered prior to 23:59:59 on 28th October 2013

No, it's not "any .co.uk", just to point out, there's a big difference between "new" and "dropping" .co.uk domains being registered after Oct 28th.

Where you say, any .co.uk registered after Oct 28th is entitled to the .UK if no other matching domain existed prior to Oct 28th, that's only in the case of "new" .co.uk registrations where that .co.uk hasn't been previously registered before, then it would be entitled to the .Uk as long as it wasn't registered in another suffix prior to Oct 28th.

The actual question was, as the bluewidgets.co.uk was registered before the Oct 28th cut off point, and as there was also an org.uk registered at the same point, even though the .co.uk was at the "renewal needed" stage on the 28th, it's still classed as an existing name? So that when it drops after Oct 28th, it then regains the entitlement to register the .UK as per:

Q. What happens if a contested .org.uk and a .co.uk exist on the 28th of October (so the .co.uk gets the right to the .uk), but between then and the launch the .co.uk drops and is registered by someone else – who gets the right to the .uk?

A. The new .co.uk registrant gets the right to the .uk.

 

[Systreg]

@ Invincible, yes, but I want it confirmed in writing from Nominet by email or on their site

It all hinges on the term "exists" for me, I'm of the view that if a domain existed, as you say, it's in the Who-Is at the point, so no matter whether it says renewal needed or whatever, that domain existed at the cut off point and should be entitled to the .UK if it's dropped and caught after Oct 28th.

 

[Systreg]

WHOIS "jensjwjsmjwkskfei.co.uk" - that's the output of a domain name that isn't registered. Anything else showing, it would be registered.

You know that and I know that, but....., needs to be in writing

 

[Stephen]

another suffix

Forget whether a .co.uk domain name was previously registered or not. It's not actually relevant because any .co.uk registered after 28th October 2013 is entitled to the matching .uk domain name up until the launch date of .uk when .uk will go FCFS unless the matching .org.uk was also registered prior to 23:59:59 on 28th October 2013 and is still registered up until launch date.

It is broader than that, it is not just .org.uk it is any 3rd level UK domain, I'm sure Nominet want to protect a .plc.uk, .ltd.uk, .me.uk etc. if it was the only 3rd level UK domain registered on 28 10 2013.

See Nominet Q & A

Q . Are any rights conferred on new .co.uk domains registered after the 28th October 2013, but before the launch date?

A. Yes, so long as the string wasn’t registered in another suffix on 28th October 2013, in which case that other suffix will get the right to the .uk over the subsequent .co.uk registration. However, if that other suffix is then cancelled between 28th Oct 2013 and the launch date, the .co.uk registered inside the same period will get the right to the .uk.

 

[jasman]

Does anyone know if the rights to a .uk domain, that is in the 5-year reserved period and has not been claimed by the .co.uk owner yet, are automatically transferred to new registrant if the .co.uk is transferred to a new registrant? Or is whoever the registrant is in October 2013 the guaranteed recipient of the .uk rights regardless of whether he sells the .co.uk on later? In other words are the .uk rights bundled with the .co.uk domain whoever owns it until the .uk is claimed, or are they tied to the registrant during October 2013?

 

[Edwin]

Does anyone know if the rights to a .uk domain, that is in the 5-year reserved period and has not been claimed by the .co.uk owner yet, are automatically transferred to new registrant if the .co.uk is transferred to a new registrant? Or is whoever the registrant is in October 2013 the guaranteed recipient of the .uk rights regardless of whether he sells the .co.uk on later? In other words are the .uk rights bundled with the .co.uk domain whoever owns it until the .uk is claimed, or are they tied to the registrant during October 2013?

The rights transfer.

 

[ian]

The rights transfer.

So (on a separate note from my question), I'd be able to buy an existing .co.uk domain which was registered years ago from another owner and still have priority of the .uk, even though .org.uk etc are owned, but not for the same duration?

 

[Murray]

So (on a separate note from my question), I'd be able to buy an existing .co.uk domain which was registered years ago from another owner and still have priority of the .uk, even though .org.uk etc are owned, but not for the same duration?

yes.

 

[Edwin]

Easiest way to think about it: rights are attached to domains, not domain owners.

 

[Systreg]

I'm still waiting for someone to example some domain name registrations that were registered in one or more non-.{co|org}.uk but not in .{co|org}.uk at 23:59:59 on 28th October 2013 but nobody has yet managed to.

paperworkuk .ltd.uk registered 1999, has a live site, isn't registered in any other suffix.

I'd be surprised if any of the tiny number that possibly existed - 1. Still exist, 2. Care about .uk given they could register the matching .co.uk now but haven't done.

cleveland-sitesafe .ltd.uk registered 1998, has a live site, they also own the .co.uk from 2001, not registered in other suffixes, there are probably more if I bothered looking.

[edit]

Had it gone to oldest registered, the aptly name acorn.ltd.uk would have been the oldest:

acorn .ltd.uk:

.co.uk 19.07.04
.org.uk 16.06.03
.me.uk 02.07.02
.net.uk domain not registered
.plc.uk domain not registered
.ltd.uk 30.09.97