Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[Edwin]

If anyone with a lot of domains needs a scan to see where they may stand if this goes ahead, email your list over to me (txt file, 1 domain per line) and I'll send a csv back in this format:

your domain,reg date,alt extension 1,reg date,alt extension2,reg date,YES/NO (winner or loser)

I won't be looking at the lists, have enough of that looking at droplists every day!

admin (at) gwi.co.uk

Grant

That's a very generous offer. Thanks for making it.

 

[grantw]

That's a very generous offer. Thanks for making it.

Handy/interesting if you've got too many domains to manually check, I've just removed the fixed prices on quite a few .org.uk domains.

Grant

 

[murph]

What if a .co.uk is parked (or a thin ad serving page) but older than an established website on one of the alternatives? Surely that's not right?

 

[LordBull]

Invincible: please share where it's possible to park .co.uk domains to earn even XXX per month

Proposal: less unacceptable, indeed. But I agree with TW - unnecessary and potentially end-user confusing

Let us not forget that this is a consultation, as before - and the upcoming
http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/structure/agm/board-election

 

[stellar73]

now I understand what they mean by an "address for service", but I don't get how this would work for me here in Ireland. I'm a Nominet registrar and the address for my registrar TAG is here in Ireland, any domain I catch or register has my Irish address attached to it, how would I register a domain with a UK address on my tag if I already have the Irish address on there?

Can't your tag address (ie your address as a registrar) be different from your address as a registrant? Even though for your purposes these are one and the same I thought technically they could be different as presumably anyone with a tag has the facility to reg for other people anyway?

Slight digression but if you're are looking for a cheap business address for mail forwarding I would recommend scanmypost.co.uk - they have a 'very light user' package which is less than £12 for a whole year. You basically get a UK mail forwarding address which (with this cheapest package) would normally only get you 5 pieces of mail a year sent on. For the purposes of domain registration it's easy to get round this however. I use them and simply make sure that I define myself as a 'sole trader' within my Nominet account which then opens up a 'trading as' field which can by displayed on the Whois in which I enter my email address - anyone that wants to contact me will obviously use this rather than the postal address anyway so the postal address is just there as a legal requirement. (I'm not in Ireland, just in temporary accom at the mo hence my need for this)

 

[stellar73]

Doing that, as well as having vanity name servers like ns1.buy-this-domain.tld used to be jumped on by Nominet. The t/a isn't for advertising ones email address but people are obviously able to get away with it.

Didn't think I'd get jumped on for that, oh well let them do their worst, there are far worse Whois crimes lurking out there ;-)

 

[GreyWing]

Just to add a good point, they appear to be publishing consultations which is a massive jump forward. However, the other half of transparency we wanted included alerting ordinary members of the public to the fact that their was a consultation to complete.

Next thing is, will they be leading questions in the consultations?

Do you want more secure domains?

 

[Systreg]

Can't your tag address (ie your address as a registrar) be different from your address as a registrant? Even though for your purposes these are one and the same I thought technically they could be different as presumably anyone with a tag has the facility to reg for other people anyway?

@ Stella, yes, I can register a domain on my TAG and it'll have my address here, or I could register a domain and make myself a new registrant and add an UK address, but that wouldn't make sense to me, as I have an address in Ireland, and only that name I registered would have a UK address, except that I don't have an UK address, plus, if I had a UK address, I wouldn't have to tag my address as myself as a new registrant account, as it would already show as a UK one on my TAG, this sounds bloody complicated reading it back.

I just don't see why I or any other overseas registrars/registrants should have to go running around setting up addresses in the UK for a place that I clearly don't live in, to me that's just pointless and a waste of money, and it leaves things wide open to fraud and abuse. Nominet should just use the real address associated with the Nominet account, whether that be UK, Ireland or bloody Timbuktu, not some paid for address I have no connection with.

Nominet send me postal mail in Ireland every month, so why the need for an address for service in the UK. Also, with the Land Registry site link I posted earlier, they changed their rules so that people could use any address overseas as the address for service, if a Government site can do it, why can't Nominet? As it stands, I can buy a house or land in the UK and give the Land Registry my Ireland address, but I can't buy a UK domain name and use my Ireland address, it's bloody ridiculous.

Thanks for the scanmypost.co.uk link, I'll have a look at that as a last resort.

Of course it can. He just obviously cannot be bothered to think about how to do it and make use of multiple accounts.

Who rattled your cage? Yes, I can be bothered, and as above, I have an idea of what to do, it just doesn't make and sense to do so. My original question was, "how would I register a domain with a UK address on my tag if I already have the Irish address on there?".

Pretty much most of the names I get are caught names, I don't reg much at all these days, and catches have to be done on my registrar TAG, not on any new registrant account on my TAG, so again, setting up a new account would be of no use to me for catching names.

I also don't want or need multiple accounts, I have my TAG and that's all I need.

 

[GreyWing]

I just don't see why I or any other overseas registrars/registrants should have to go running around setting up addresses in the UK for a place that I clearly don't live in, to me that's just pointless and a waste of money, and it leaves things wide open to fraud and abuse.

You don't mate, you can go to your local MEP in Ireland. The EU have the power to act on these types of complaints and will pay the legal fees to prosecute Nominet under barriers to trade laws.

 

[Systreg]

I don't understand what you've typed.

I'll tolerate you on this occasion, even though you're being your usual arsey self

I did say above that it looked complicated when I read it back, so, to simplify what I said to Stella was with regards to her asking, "Can't your tag address be different from your address as a registrant? Even though for your purposes these are one and the same I thought technically they could be different as presumably anyone with a tag has the facility to reg for other people anyway?", to which I replied:

1. Yes, I can register a domain on my TAG and it'll have my Irish address.

2. Yes, I could register a domain on my TAG as a new registrant account in my name with an UK address.

3. If I had an UK address, I wouldn't have to do option 2 as my TAG would already have as a UK address.

You may have to if Nominet decree you need to in order to be able to register a direct.uk domain name. That's the only reason why. I hope you can now "see why"!

With regards to whether or not they'll insist on an UK address in order to be able to register any .UK domains remains to be seen, nothing is set in stone at the moment, so it may not come to that, or it may well do.

No, I don't see why it should be, it's just causing more problems by making people jump through hoops to do so if it went ahead that way, I'd like to know why they feel the need to require that when the likes of the Land Registry accept overseas address for service?

Nominet already send me invoices to my Irish postal address, which is also an address for service, it makes no sense to insist on an additional UK address for overseas registrars/registrants.

If you do know the method of doing it, which is by using more than one account, but yet you don't want to use that method then what else would you prefer?

As above, I don't want or need multiple accounts, if that was the case, then I might as well have not bothered becoming a registrar in the first place, as I could have saved myself £600 and just used the likes of Heart, Daily or 123-reg for regging domains.

What would I prefer? Simple, to use my own registrar TAG with my Irish address for registration purposes.

Would you like Nominet to invent a new way for you to do it?!

no, just the simplest option from them would be for the best, which is, no change from the current address used.

As you know you can have multiple domain name accounts on the same tag each with the same registant and each using a different address. It's easily done. If you don't want to use multiple accounts then devoid of Nominet inventing [you] a new way to do what you want, it cannot be done.

As above, I don't want or need multiple accounts on my TAG, I just want to use my TAG, not an account on it, and another, and another. You seem to be insisting that Nominet aren't going to be moved on the address issue, I don't want them inventing anything, just what is easiest to do would suffice.

 

[newguy]

Proposal: less unacceptable, indeed. But I agree with TW - unnecessary and potentially end-user confusing

A fair assessment. More people ought to try to separate "what's good/better for me.." from what's better for the end user. There will no doubt be big winners and losers should these changes take place, but it's still perfectly clear that .uk will be confusing for the general public for years and is essentially completely pointless.

 

[Stephen]

uk address v registrant overseas address?

.....I just don't see why I or any other overseas registrars/registrants should have to go running around setting up addresses in the UK for a place that I clearly don't live in, to me that's just pointless and a waste of money, and it leaves things wide open to fraud and abuse. Nominet should just use the real address associated with the Nominet account, whether that be UK, Ireland or bloody Timbuktu, not some paid for address I have no connection with.......

I hope that Nominet change the Whois record and there internal database system that both the non-uk registrant address and where needed the UK contact address are both shown.

As I consumer, I use the Whois to find the owners details to see if what they say on their site about them matches the Whois including where they are based, its all about security and it would be a bad thing if the registrant address was replaced by a UK PO box address which has no real meaning.

 

[Murray]

I don't understand why org.uk or me.uk would get the .uk at all.

.uk will be intended for commerical use wont it? so the co.uk holder should have the first option.

But then probably a large % .co.uk holders wont even know about .uk and they will be snapped up by domainers.

I also don't understand how they went from saying the cost would be £20 was it? down to £5.

 

[GreyWing]

I don't understand why org.uk or me.uk would get the .uk at all.

.uk will be intended for commerical use wont it? so the co.uk holder should have the first option.

But then probably a large % .co.uk holders wont even know about .uk and they will be snapped up by domainers.

I also don't understand how they went from saying the cost would be £20 was it? down to £5.

Exactly right mate, most public users will simply dismiss this and not understand the importance of what is going on until it is to late (years down the line). It's a cyber squatters dream. Financially, I and suppose most on here would make a fortune if we were to drop our morals and a) go ahead with this proposal and b) start cybersquatting the people who are most vulnerable - the public.

People don't deserve to lose business because they don't understand the domain industry and how it works, one day they wake up and find a competitor on their lawn. To thje average user, they won't understand the difference between .uk and .co, they get emails for .co all the time I bet. We know it is different but they don't.

 

[Stephen]

£20 to £5

......I also don't understand how they went from saying the cost would be £20 was it? down to £5.

The majority of the £20 in .uk version 1 was "security costs", although they would never would release the breakdown.

But is was mainly writing to verify every address of each domain (not the registrant - so massive duplication)
and the cost a daily malware scan and dealing with the blocking / unblocking of websites supposedly effected by malware
plus a small amount for DNSSEC.

As those will not be just on .uk and will be watered down as they got it so wrong the first time on security, the costs will be less.

We await the detail of there new overall security measures to see if it offers value for money.

 

[TallBloke]

Some .co.uk domain names currently make £xxxx's a month serving relevant PPC listings and other advertising. Why would that be wrong?

Good point!

It'd be a total minefield if domain on-page content was part of the equation.

 

[Murray]

The majority of the £20 in .uk version 1 was "security costs", although they would never would release the breakdown.

But I thought that was their main reason for trying to roll out .uk? security.

If they're watering down all the security, what is their reason for releasing it now? just the "The domain name market is undergoing a major transition, with a new and more competitive market emerging, driven by the introduction of over 1,000 new top level domains from 2014" waffle.

 

[TallBloke]

I don't understand why org.uk or me.uk would get the .uk at all.

What about charities that use .org.uk?

You'd expect oxfam.org.uk to be able to attempt to claim oxfam.uk (though in this particular case they do have the .co.uk too - but you know what I mean)

Here's a better example:

British Heart Foundation use bhf.org.uk whereas Barclays Bank have bhf.co.uk (the org.uk was reg'd first).

 

[PaulGregory]

I think it's very likely that consumers will get the impression that the .co bit is no longer required, if all the high profile companies with .co.uk switch to .uk

It's highly likely that some companies will find that "their" .uk has gone to someone who grabbed a .org.uk purely to be eligible for getting first dibs on the .uk - as the company with the .co.uk isn't making any plans for .uk and the .org.uk is.

It's also a bit unfair for people who have UK at the end of their name. For example, Age UK (the rebranded charity after Age Concern and Help The Aged merged). They have ageuk.org.uk which is clumsy but makes sense. Clearly age.uk would be nice for them but they have no rights to play Earliest Reg Wins (although admittedly they would lose to both age.co.uk and age.org.uk). Not a great example, but "people who have UK at the end of their name who would prefer ~.uk to ~uk.uk" are disadvantaged by the proposals.

 

[simondooner]

potential new .uk service designed especially for businesses

The UK domain space is now of such strategic importance to the UK economy and our prospects for future growth that a confused, incoherent approach to the proposed direct.uk is simply unacceptable.

I must confess that as a business owner I’m very confused by Nominets proposals… perhaps an Acorn member, or even a representative from Nominet could help to explain.

As an observation, the following are direct quotations from Nominets current/recent publications:

Regarding .uk, Nominet quote “…a potential new .uk service designed especially for businesses”

Regarding .co.uk, Nominet quote “… says we do business in the UK”​

These two statements seem to be implicitly linked.

Regarding .me.uk, Nominet quote “… says I’m not a business”

Regarding .org.uk, Nominet quote “… confirms we’re non-commercial”, “… the non-commercial domain choice”​

If Nominet propose direct.uk as a potential new .uk service designed especially for businesses, why should .org.uk and .me.uk be given any priority over existing .co.uk registrations?

UK business needs all the support it can muster in these times of extreme economic uncertainty… and I don’t see this currently coming from Nominet.

What a mess!