Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[martin-s]

It's also a bit unfair for people who have UK at the end of their name. For example, Age UK (the rebranded charity after Age Concern and Help The Aged merged). They have ageuk.org.uk which is clumsy but makes sense. Clearly age.uk would be nice for them but they have no rights to play Earliest Reg Wins (although admittedly they would lose to both age.co.uk and age.org.uk). Not a great example, but "people who have UK at the end of their name who would prefer ~.uk to ~uk.uk" are disadvantaged by the proposals.

This is exactly the issue we fall foul of sadly

 

[newguy]

The UK domain space is now of such strategic importance to the UK economy and our prospects for future growth that a confused, incoherent approach to the proposed direct.uk is simply unacceptable.

I must confess that as a business owner I’m very confused by Nominets proposals… perhaps an Acorn member, or even a representative from Nominet could help to explain.

As an observation, the following are direct quotations from Nominets current/recent publications:

Regarding .uk, Nominet quote “…a potential new .uk service designed especially for businesses”

Regarding .co.uk, Nominet quote “… says we do business in the UK”​

These two statements seem to be implicitly linked.

Regarding .me.uk, Nominet quote “… says I’m not a business”

Regarding .org.uk, Nominet quote “… confirms we’re non-commercial”, “… the non-commercial domain choice”​

If Nominet propose direct.uk as a potential new .uk service designed especially for businesses, why should .org.uk and .me.uk be given any priority over existing .co.uk registrations?

UK business needs all the support it can muster in these times of extreme economic uncertainty… and I don’t see this currently coming from Nominet.

What a mess!

You make a very good point.

 

[websaway]

I don't understand why org.uk or me.uk would get the .uk at all.

.uk will be intended for commerical use wont it? so the co.uk holder should have the first option.

But then probably a large % .co.uk holders wont even know about .uk and they will be snapped up by domainers.

I also don't understand how they went from saying the cost would be £20 was it? down to £5.

I think they are trying to display that it is a new product and by offering first dibs to co.uk holders they would have to admit the truth that this is a uk business domain intended to take over from co.uk, but you will of course always have to keep your co.uk registered and register the co.uk with any new .uk you register.
And while they would dearly love to have .uk in use, and could do,they want to keep alive the prospect of a massive income stream, at the expense of course of the already overburdened UK consumer.

Remember £5 per year is the wholesale price it could be £12 for the ordinary consumer.

 

[Admin]

Fully agree, why should a .me.uk carry any weight over a .co.uk

So I guess nothing of age will drop anymore escpecially .org.uk and .me.uk domains that would have been let go previously, as these now carry a value to be first in line for the .UK if they are the oldest

Admin

 

[websaway]

Fully agree, why should a .me.uk carry any weight over a .co.uk

So I guess nothing of age will drop anymore escpecially .org.uk and .me.uk domains that would have been let go previously, as these now carry a value to be first in line for the .UK if they are the oldest

Admin

actually you could now register the org.uk to every quality co.uk that is suspended and get the .uk if the co.uk drops and you don't catch it.

 

[AssetDomains]

actually you could now register the org.uk to every quality co.uk that is suspended and get the .uk if the co.uk drops and you don't catch it.

A lot are already taken and have been for some time. Noms latest proposal kicks us current catchers square in the nuts

 

[monaghan]

A lot are already taken and have been for some time. Noms latest proposal kicks us current catchers square in the nuts

Of course, if you are a big registrar and you have your T&C's worded to allow you to take control over non-renewed domains after expiry (get reading the T&C's now if you are not a Nominet member!), you can do one better than the average catcher as you can transfer the domain and renew it keeping the original dates and therefore rights to the .uk

 

[websaway]

The first refusal to existing third level registrants part of the proposal probably only applies to domain names registered prior to the cut off date published. That date is prior to the date of publication of the original direct.uk proposal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you think that any names registered after Oct 2012 will have no rights to the .uk ?

That's a great place to be.

 

[TinkyWinky]

So you think that any names registered after Oct 2012 will have no rights to the .uk ?

That's a great place to be.

Ha ha... that made me laugh...

I personally think this whole thread is pointless - there's no NEED - it's not wanted (except by Directors who may get a bonus and some people who *think* they can play the system and bag some good domains) and finally - it is going to take up a whole load of time for everyone involved - which surely could be better spent running our businesses!

TW

 

[Bailey]

Noms latest proposal kicks us current catchers square in the nuts

Which I believe it was always intended to do.

It isn't difficult to envisage some of the flack that Nominet would have been getting over the years. Now that everyone and his Cat wants their own script and Dac access - time to call it a day says Nominet.

and any Proposal isn't going to reward past performance either - If Nominet have anything to do with it

 

[JamesMac]

Which I believe it was always intended to do.

It isn't difficult to envisage some of the flack that Nominet would have been getting over the years. Now that everyone and his Cat wants their own script and Dac access - time to call it a day says Nominet.

and any Proposal isn't going to reward past performance either - If Nominet have anything to do with it

Ye because Nominet designed this whole .UK roll out to target a small minority of people who drop catch domains....

The reason Nominet has opted to do it this way is because based on their consultations this is how to satisfy the majority of stakeholder complaints they would have received.

Why should .co.uk's have priority over .org.uk? If I run a charity on an .org.uk and some domainer registers the .co.uk afterwards for type in's should I not be eligible for the .uk?

What Nominet have proposed here is the fairest solution to a problem they can in order to roll .UK out in a scalable fashion IMO.

 

[Bailey]

Ye because Nominet designed this whole .UK roll out to target a small minority of people who drop catch domains....

.

You can believe what you want. But, the fact remains that Nominet would love to "kill-as-many-birds" with one stone remains...

The trouble is at the moment - too few people have to great an effect on the UK space - Yes we can say that about the Nominet board as well..

It does baffle me that so many people don't see the "re-invention" of the UK space as a way of solving a lot of 'Perceived' problems for Nominet but, instead choose to focus purely on the Financial aspects.

 

[AssetDomains]

Why should .co.uk's have priority over .org.uk? If I run a charity on an .org.uk and some domainer registers the .co.uk afterwards for type in's should I not be eligible for the .uk?

Hardly likely to happen but if it did you would have a great case for a DRS. But when the org.uk is a generic word nothing to do with charity it seems crazy that if someone has put ££££ into building on the .co.uk that the org.uk that's undeveloped for years gets preferential rights to the brand new premier domain in the UK namespace hardly fair

 

[Murray]

Simon Dooner answers your point best, .co.uk was sold as the commercial extension, .org.uk for organisations and .me.uk for individuals. They have now stated that .uk will be a commercial extension and by definition that gives rights to the holder of the current commercial registration.

I was about to say this, and Id already said it before Simon in fewer words

If nominet released something new intended for organisations, charities etc & non commercial, I would have said org.uk should have first dibs.

 

[murph]

Could this all be a way of kick starting the dwindling registrations at Nom? .org.uk and .me.uk's no longer dropped, new ones reg'd in hope that they will be an earlier date should the .co.uk be dropped? Seems like even if this never goes through, they have potentially increased registrations in the short term?

I do think they've addressed a lot of the initial issues, but the earliest date aspect is troubling and the confusion for the public remains. Not to mention the costs to biz for unnecessary rebranding.

 

[bb99]

Why should .co.uk's have priority over .org.uk? If I run a charity on an .org.uk and some domainer registers the .co.uk afterwards for type in's should I not be eligible for the .uk?

What Nominet have proposed here is the fairest solution to a problem they can in order to roll .UK out in a scalable fashion IMO.

Look at it the other way - why should the oldest of .org.uk/.me.uk/.co.uk have priority?

None of the ways of doing it are fair and equitable (and that includes nobody having grandfather rights and auctioning them).

And therein lies the problem.

 

[Bailey]

They have now stated that .uk will be a commercial extension and by definition that gives rights to the holder of the current commercial registration.

I do agree with you Sean - Nominet seems to have created a rod for their own back there. But perhaps they may choose just to modify that statement instead

 

[Blossom]

Look at it the other way - why should the oldest of .org.uk/.me.uk/.co.uk have priority?

None of the ways of doing it are fair and equitable (and that includes nobody having grandfather rights and auctioning them).

And therein lies the problem.

I think appropriate website development needs to be taken into account too. Needs to be a tiered system of priorities with older, developed .co.uks at the top due to the aforementioned business angle of .uk (although to be honest, I would drop the business angle altogether if I were Nominet. There's no reason to say it's for businesses other than for marketing purposes - nothing in the extension signifies business). Even then, I agree it's still going to be problematic.

 

[Retired_member41]

Nominet on the phone earlier said, .uk is only 1 of many new extensions they were releasing.

And nominet did not recognise that just the .co.uk was used for business and org me etc were just as good for business in their opinion. Madness.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Ex member here, but interested in this topic enough in this to sign up and see whats new. I've spoken to a few of you privately over the last day or so… will be using some of my own domains as examples here so if anyone wants to contact me about them then you probably have my email. None of my domains are for sale, or will be for sale though

One thing I did notice… its a bit pathetic to see some people do a complete about-turn on this when they realise the new proposal is going to benefit them personally, yet felt the need to campaign against it publicly when it was going to be bad for them personally. If the original negative campaigns had any merit (outside of a self serving one) then these people should still be against the new proposal. At least people like Greywing are being consistent and honest in their thoughts on it. Anyway I don't think I have any more to say on that particular angle, so moving on.

As the current proposal stands we are going to lose a handful of good keywords - we own the .org.uk of poker, car insurance, debt management, mobile phones, payday loan. They are all beaten on the registered date by the .co.uk. Under the old proposal I'd have got to enter an auction with each of the above. I guess the % of .org.uk owners who end up getting the .uk over the .co.uk owner is going to end up in the low single digits… and even less as you move into higher value keywords.

One domain that we will pick up under the current proposal is paydayloans.org.uk (2002 reg against the 2004 reg of the .co.uk). I guess some people here won't be happy with that and would rather .co.uk owners get everything… but then if they done it based on fairness rather than extension or age I'd deserve that domain anyway. The .co.uk owner has done nothing with his… we turned ours into a real business. We generated millions in commissions, hired full time staff, web designers, pr companies, link builders, etc etc. We done something of value with the .org.uk so why shouldn't we get the .uk to continue investing and creating further jobs?

Under the current system, I'm still going to lose domains that I feel that I would easily be entitled to if any fairness came into things. I own a .co.uk finance related domain and have a site on it. This site (and 2 similar domains) is directly responsible for keeping 1 person in UK in full time employment. But I assume it must have dropped in the past (long before I paid 20 something thousand £ for it). .org.uk owner (an Acorn member) is running his version of the site criminally (refusing to comply with consumer credit laws). Under the current system he's going to be handed a .uk version of the domain, yet can't even be bothered complying with the law on his current one. That hardly seems fair.

The fairest thing to do would be to just auction off all the high value generic keyword domains publicly. They are exactly that… generic domains so nobody should feel they have an entitlement to them. I have a penalised site on carinsurance.org.uk - Dr Dolittle has absolutely nothing of value on his .co.uk. Why should either of us be given first crack at a domain like this? Its a generic domain ffs… let it go to public auction and it'll sell at whatever the market values it at. Then you might actually see someone develop them and create jobs and so on, rather than millions of domains just disappear into portfolios like Edwins, to be overpriced and sat on for years…

Purely from a selfish angle I couldn't really care less whether they launch on the old proposal or the new. Old one lets me roll the dice in auctions on a handful of big domains… new one gives me only paydayloans for a fiver. So I'm not fussed either way. There is definitely faults no matter how its done… but you're never going to be able to create a rule applied across the board that ends up working out fairly for everyone.

Also its nice to see some entrepreneurial spirit going on… clearly a bunch of you are stuffing keyword lists into a check system to see where the .org.uk predates the .co.uk… 2 offers to buy paydayloans.org.uk so far this morning