Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[websaway]

They would be allowed, but that doesn't mean they would though.

I believe they would, especially if the .co.uk was in use, but anyway most co.uk domains that would still be in existence at the introduction would be commercially forced to register the .uk.

 

[TinkyWinky]

Look at this advice - just taken from the agreatplacetobe.co.uk site:

"If your first choice is already taken

You can use the WHOIS search tool to check the availability of all .uk domain names If someone has already registered the name you want, they might be willing to sell it to you. The WHOIS tool is located on the Nominet website."
So nominet actively encourage customers to buy domains in the aftermarket. And this is still going on today. No mention of checking the registration date. No warning at all about their new proposals and the effect it might have on your investment. This site should be taken down right now. In fact it should have been taken down on 1st October 2012.

http://www.agreatplacetobe.co.uk/get-started/whats-in-a-name/

No - this site should be copied 'as is' today to use in evidence of the practices encouraged by a Board of Directors that are not fit for purpose!

 

[TallBloke]

I'd like to see the research they've done that has lead them to believe that .uk is under threat from new extensions. If they can show significant drops in registrations/renewals since the release of .co or .info for example, I'd be much more willing to believe there's an issue approaching that needs addressing.

Grant

I don't see a clear benefit for implementing direct.uk either in this revised proposal.

Yes, .uk is more succinct than .co.uk but nobody seems to have thought of that years ago when they implemented .co.uk etc and now there's millions of co.uk names in operation.

What are the disadvantages of continuing with .co.uk ?

 

[anthony]

I can't see that Sean's argument is illogical. Remember that .org.uk domains were never meant to be used for commercial purposes - yet there will be many .org.uk domain owners trumping the true commercial domain.

Nominet never enforced the non commercial use of .org.uk domains, but their intentions about the use and ownership of .org.uk is quite clear on the agreatplacetobe.co.uk site. Yet they now propose rewarding the commercial use of .org.uk domains.

But your stance implies that commercial users have the greatest rights, which frankly is crap mate. At a .uk level, there are no favoured groups, which is how it should be.

In any event, that wasn't the point I was making. Sean's arguement inferred that the first domain sellers efforts were in some way altruistic in nature, whereas the second domain seller was some opportunistic f**ker who the buyer might get robbed by. They're both domain sellers to my mind, no difference whatsoever!

 

[Jamie101]

I've just noticed this (have been out all day) and I'm still not sure whether to be happy or not. It does look much better than I thought though.

I don't live in the UK, so what happens to my domains (or domain - you probably know which one I'm talking about)?

 

[AssetDomains]

I've just noticed this (have been out all day) and I'm still not sure whether to be happy or not. It does look much better than I thought though.

I don't live in the UK, so what happens to my domains (or domain - you probably know which one I'm talking about)?

If your talking your 3 letter your safe as it didn't drop so you have the earliest registration date.
Assuming they let you reg as an Irish Man

 

[retired_member29]

Originally Posted by martin-s
I've never known Edwin to be anything other than fair and principled. He's a credit to this forum and it's sad to see him being slated like this.

I agree entirely.

+2, i dont think its a good idea to start getting personal. Edwin has been helpful to me and many others on this forum.

 

[Jamie101]

If your talking your 3 letter your safe as it didn't drop so you have the earliest registration date.
Assuming they let you reg as an Irish Man

Yeah that's the problem though, I'm not in the UK.

Anyways, even though this proposal probably would benefit me a little bit I still don't think it should go ahead. Let's face it, there is no fair way to deal with something like this.

If there was a real need for .uk then I'd accept that there has to be winners and losers but in my opinion there is no real need for it.

 

[AssetDomains]

Yeah that's the problem though, I'm not in the UK.

Anyways, even though this proposal probably would benefit me a little bit I still don't think it should go ahead. Let's face it, there is no fair way to deal with something like this.

If there was a real need for .uk then I'd accept that there has to be winners and losers but in my opinion there is no real need for it.

I'm guessing nationality wont be all that big of a deal worst case scenario set up a registered UK company for peanuts then transfer ownership to that

 

[Stephen]

Uk address?

I'm guessing nationality wont be all that big of a deal worst case scenario set up a registered UK company for peanuts then transfer ownership to that

Under the Eu laws they cannot force you to use a UK company for ownership for a UK domain.

Nominet are only looking for a UK admin address not a UK place of business (tax implications),
there will be plenty of companies offering that service
including the main UK registrars, just another income stream for them
for forwarding on emails and accepting a letter a year!

The question is will it be per domain -(suits the UK registrars)
or per registrant (common sense and cheapest option) ?

 

[Edwin]

I don't live in the UK, so what happens to my domains (or domain - you probably know which one I'm talking about)?

An "address for service" is a business short-hand that normally means something very specific: an address at which an entity can be contacted for legal purposes (i.e. if you send a letter there, you can be sure - from a legal point of view - that it SHOULD get to the intended recipient).

Certain other cctlds have a similar requirement, which is normally met by certain registrars providing their own office address as a proxy to the client's address, and writing into their agreement that they will take on the responsibility for forwarding mail. I think it recently changed, but it used to be a requirement for .jp domains for example that the Whois reflect a contact address in Japan, but it was NOT required for the entity owning the name itself to be physically located in Japan.

What it means is that if Nominet sends a snail-mail letter to the "address for service" associated with a .uk domain (which would be a UK address) then from a legal perspective they would be seen to have exercised their duty of care with respect to ensuring that the letter arrives smoothly. The onus would therefore be on the registrar/registrant together to set up the actual arrangement to guarantee that mail gets redirected as appropriate - from Nominet's point of view they're covered once they've mailed it to the "address of record".

By phrasing it this way, Nominet get around the huge problem with V1 of the direct.uk proposal, that is "What happens to all the non-UK based companies that currently have .co.uk names? Are they prevented from participating in .uk?" to which Nominet's new answer is effectively "No, but there must be an address we can reach them at in the UK for legal purposes."

See http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/address-for-service.html

 

[Jamie101]

Thanks for that, that clears it up for me. Learn something new every day!

 

[WealdDomains]

Hi. Please, let's have objective debate about the Nominet proposals rather than slagging off individual domainers over their positions.

I'm extremely grateful to Edwin ... and others with very different opinions ... for their willingness to share approaches and attitudes and for collectively championing UK domaining.

We will all have differing portfolios, differing principles and politics, differing attitudes and styles, differing financial exposures and differing preferred outcomes.

Let's exploit those differences for our mutual benefit in providing quality wide-ranging feedback on the proposals rather than being distracted by infighting.

Yes, I know that sounds sanctimonious and idealistic, but I'm going to post it anyway

David

 

[Stephen]

No Uk address - what will happen?

An "address for service" is a business short-hand that normally means something very specific: an address at which an entity can be contacted for legal purposes........
By phrasing it this way, Nominet get around the huge problem with V1 of the direct.uk proposal, that is "What happens to all the non-UK based companies that currently have .co.uk names? Are they prevented from participating in .uk?" to which Nominet's new answer is effectively "No, but there must be an address we can reach them at in the UK for legal purposes."

Edwin, So glad to see you are helping by sharing your vast knowledge on these areas, it is much appreciated and I as always thank you for your many contributions in this important area.

The question is what will Nominet do about the large % of non UK owners, about 6% of .co.uk domains are held by non UK registrants,
I would imagine a larger % of those than UK residents,
will not get to know about the .uk and their potential rights of owning the .UK.

Will Nominet make it easy for them in securing a UK address by providing advise and links to registrars and companies that offer that service?

Will Nominet extend the grace period for them?

Will Nominet put the .uk domain into Sunrise auction, if not claimed or they cannot provide a valid UK admin address?

Will Nominet just not mention anything about the unclaimed .uk domains and allow domainers to scan all the .co.uk domains and hunt the quality unregistered ones?

 

[Systreg]

An "address for service" is a business short-hand that normally means something very specific: an address at which an entity can be contacted for legal purposes (i.e. if you send a letter there, you can be sure - from a legal point of view - that it SHOULD get to the intended recipient).

<snipped>

By phrasing it this way, Nominet get around the huge problem with V1 of the direct.uk proposal, that is "What happens to all the non-UK based companies that currently have .co.uk names? Are they prevented from participating in .uk?" to which Nominet's new answer is effectively "No, but there must be an address we can reach them at in the UK for legal purposes."

@ Edwin, thanks, now I understand what they mean by an "address for service", but I don't get how this would work for me here in Ireland. I'm a Nominet registrar and the address for my registrar TAG is here in Ireland, any domain I catch or register has my Irish address attached to it, how would I register a domain with a UK address on my tag if I already have the Irish address on there?

In addition to that, I think it's ridiculous that overseas registrars and registrants will have to pay for a UK address, just to satisfy Nominet in order to potentially register the .UK of any of my current domains.

 

[Edwin]

The question is what will Nominet do about the large % of non UK owners, about 6% of .co.uk domains are held by non UK registrants,
I would imagine a larger % of those than UK residents,
will not get to know about the .uk and their potential rights of owning the .UK.

In theory - and I stress that it is very much in THEORY* - it is a requirement baked into the domain registration agreement all domain registrants must adhere to that:

4.1 give and keep us notified of your correct name, postal address and any phone, fax or e-mail information and those of your contacts (if you appoint any, see condition 5.2). This duty includes responding quickly and correctly to any request from us to confirm or correct the information on the register;

http://www.nominet.org.uk/uk-domain...terms-and-conditions-domain-name-registration

So Nominet would be legally able to argue that if they email and mail the registrant using the most up to date contact details they have on record for them, that's "good enough".

Worth also mentioning that before they switched to an all-electronic system, and when I was still living in Tokyo, Nominet seemed perfectly willing to send copies of invoices and other notices to an overseas address. So I can't imagine they will dare to draw any kind of "internal cutoff" around who they do and who they do not notify about the availability of the .uk domains, should they get launched. With their eye firmly on the prize (more registrations, and more renewals) the cost of sending letters abroad will seem minimal.

*The provisions in a T&C document can be struck down if they're proven to be grossly unfair and out of all proportions to what would be "generally expected" - but of course that would involve a hefty legal battle.

 

[Systreg]

I searched for "address for service" and came across the Governments Land Registry site, see link: http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-55

Regarding address for service on there, it says:

2 Introduction

R.198, LRR 2003 has introduced significant changes to the types of address for service that we will now accept for entry in the register. Under previous legislation, an address for service had to be a postal address within the United Kingdom1 (s.79, LRA 1925, now repealed).

1 ‘United Kingdom’ comprises England (including the Scilly Isles), Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but not the Channel Islands, Isle of Man or Eire (Interpretation Act 1978, s.5 and Schedule 1).

Then on the following section it says:

4 Types of address for service

We will always require at least one postal address for entry in the register, but this does not have to be within the United Kingdom (r.198(3), LRR 2003).

In addition to the postal address, if you ask us we will enter in the register:


• a UK DX address provided Land Registry has an arrangement with the particular DX service provider (r.198(4)(b) and (7), LRR 2003)


• an electronic (email) address (r.198(4)(c), [8] and (9), LRR 2003).

When supplying the address for service, please provide the following.


• For UK postal addresses, the full address including the post code.


• For overseas addresses, the full address including the country name and ZIP or area code (or equivalent). If the address is in non-Roman characters, we will need a translation for entry in the register.


• For DX addresses, the box number and exchange name in the format DX 223344, Southampton 4.


• For email addresses, the address in the format [email protected]

The supply of an incomplete address may mean that we have to contact you for the full address before your application can be completed.

You may give us an address that is a ‘care of’ address.

Why is it that an Governemt site is happy for people to supply an address for service that isn't in the UK, but Nominet are demaing it? They also send invoices to me in Ireland by postal mail, so why not send me other mail here as my address for service?

 

[WealdDomains]

Once it gets to the detail, there could end up being a difference between the treatment of EU/EEA registrants (including those in RoI) versus those from the rest of the world, with more tolerance/flexibility for the former to avoid implicit breaches of EU/EEA free trade / passporting rules.

David

 

[crazihos]

By phrasing it this way, Nominet get around the huge problem with V1 of the direct.uk proposal, that is "What happens to all the non-UK based companies that currently have .co.uk names? Are they prevented from participating in .uk?" to which Nominet's new answer is effectively "No, but there must be an address we can reach them at in the UK for legal purposes."

Can they use the above to get around the data protection issue from v1 that would stop them contacting registrants? If not any idea how they will let the current domain owners know about the new release?

 

[grantw]

If anyone with a lot of domains needs a scan to see where they may stand if this goes ahead, email your list over to me (txt file, 1 domain per line) and I'll send a csv back in this format:

your domain,reg date,alt extension 1,reg date,alt extension2,reg date,YES/NO (winner or loser)

I won't be looking at the lists, have enough of that looking at droplists every day!

admin (at) gwi.co.uk

Grant