Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[GreyWing]

I think the whole point was to show that domain.uk was a legit UK website. It's hard to do that if it's on a lesser extension. You can't say, hey this website is really from the UK/has a UK owner if it's on an extension which is lesser than one owned by an American (for example). It has to be a level above to have any credibility.

Why is it harder to show it is a legit extension? So .co.uk will be less credible than .uk?

 

[Retired_Member42]

It depends how you define credible and what you're actually looking for from the domain. The purpose of the original .uk plans were to provide security/registration restrictions and make domain.uk only available to people in the UK thus proving it as a real UK site. If you were to do this on a different extension and offer domain.xx.uk, I don't think it'd hold much weight and the global population will think .co.uk is the primary extension for the UK.

 

[GreyWing]

It depends how you define credible and what you're actually looking for from the domain. The purpose of the original .uk plans were to provide security/registration restrictions and make domain.uk only available to people in the UK thus proving it as a real UK site. If you were to do this on a different extension and offer domain.xx.uk, I don't think it'd hold much weight and the global population will think .co.uk is the primary extension for the UK.

But if you follow the debate, you will have realised that they can't show that people in the uk will get it. People with mailing addresses can have it. So that was a red herring or poorly thought out. They have already given up by admitting mailing addresses are ok. There are hundreds more ways round it as well.

You are right that .co.uk will become less credible as the big brands move to .uk rather than security concerns.

 

[Bailey]

Sorry redemption - but there is no-way to agree with you.

.uk as a stand alone will dictate - it's not about history or preference - it's about logic and commonality

 

[Retired_Member42]

Either way. As I've said numerous times in the past few hours. I don't care personally if .uk is introduced or isn't. It makes no real difference to me. I just think if it does happen then the proposals need to be fair and generally for the greater good of the UK Internet space as a whole and not simply Nominet battered into a release strategy by domainers who are objecting to proposals that don't suit them and suggesting those that are.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Sorry redemption - but there is no-way to agree with you.

.uk as a stand alone will dictate - it's not about history or preference - it's about logic and commonality

That's exactly what I'm saying. .uk will dictate which is why the suggestion of xx.uk or whatever other option other the .uk won't work as the .co.uk no matter how Nominet spin it will be considered more legit by the real world. I was simply responding to the thread above.

 

[scooter]

ouch!
PS:
Do a search on any google extention for: ezcap
.

I forgot to add. I purchased mine for £15
I take one sugar in my coffee when you are ready. (just a little milk)

I do not care how much money you have spent, or make. The point being there is always someone who betters you. Be it money or serps or whatever.

This time next year you are going to make anything between £30K and £2million. How come you have not made this with your portfolio before .uk was announced? Surely it was worth the same before the announcement as you are the co.uk holder. I am not having a pop, I am interested to see why you think your names are now worth so much?


.

 

[Skinner]

Graeme how many people work for QuickLoans.co.uk ? actual real people, who would be hit financially should .uk start to kill it, given that the .org.uk owner will get the .uk.

Monkey talks about generating jobs, but I want to talk about the people who will lose jobs. One of my sites which carries stock is run on a majority percentage by James and his missus, also paid by that is a student who does the graphic design for banners, special offers, and other artwork monthly, a small business with 3 lock ups leases one for storage, the hosting company is paid, someone was paid to build the site, I bought the domains for x,xxx about 5-6yrs ago, and the .me.uk predates my .co.uk and .org.uk by around 5 months.

Should I fail to get the .uk and the search engines favour .uk and public lose faith in .co.uk for .uk, and 80% of that sites traffic is search engine based, I'll be winding that up and telling 3 people sorry, heres a p45.

The same will go for the other work I would be giving out from the other .co.uk's where I fail to secure the .uk, I will NOT be ploughing money into the .co.uk once .uk comes out for the exact same reason I do not "do" .org/me.uk's now. they are not the premium platform so how many jobs are lost ?

Any other domainers wanna estimate (on their own domains I mean) ?

 

[Bailey]

That's exactly what I'm saying. .uk will dictate which is why the suggestion of xx.uk or whatever other option other the .uk won't work as the .co.uk no matter how Nominet spin it will be considered more legit by the real world. I was simply responding to the thread above.

Apologies if I misconstrued.

I do agree that our uk space needs/requires a simple .uk definition.

I honestly thought (many years ago) that Nominet and the powers to be had got right with an understanding of the growth (potential) of the net.

Once in a while I get it wrong...:roll:

 

[Jump]

Its a real business... but its a destructive one with the only winner being the owner. Lets hear an argument as to how someone sitting on thousands of domains is an overall benefit to the UK internet industry.

You are missing my point: Edwin's business forms part of what you call "the UK internet industry"; a "legitimate" part of it.

The continued exclusion of Edwin's business (and those like his) from what you regard as the "industry" is what I am taking issue with.

Also, I fail to understand why it is "destructive". Anyone can pick up the phone and buy one of those names from him. If he did not reg/buy/catch/invest in those names, someone else would have, and the "real" business you refer to would either have to buy the name they want from someone else or, worse, it would be developed and they would *not* have the opportunity.

Either way, large portfolio holders are a legitimate industry stakeholder that Nominet must have regard for when coming up with an *equitable* system for allocating .uk names (assuming we agree that must happen, which you may reasonably argue should not happen).

 

[Retired_Member38]

I forgot to add. I purchased mine for £15
I take one sugar in my coffee when you are ready. (just a little milk)

I do not care how much money you have spent, or make. The point being there is always someone who betters you. Be it money or serps or whatever.

This time next year you are going to make anything between £30K and £2million. How come you have not made this with your portfolio before .uk was announced? Surely it was worth the same before the announcement as you are the co.uk holder. I am not having a pop, I am interested to see why you think your names are now worth so much?


.

It was nothing more than a lighthearted dig. You were clearly having a go at how much I paid for that domain, which was why i responded

I never mentioned how much I'll make or lose this year outside of the .uk domain stuff. It's a discussion on the domain extensions... so whether I have or haven't made £2m before .uk is not particularly relevant to anything.

Purely from the .uk angle, £30k would really be the absolute minimum I could make I think. To get anywhere near the maximum I'd need nominet to auction domains between all the extension holders. That puts me in the running for a handful of very premium keywords. Obviously its a gamble... I might win some and lose others. Plus I need to guess how the market will respond to these extensions. Quick flips for profit would be a near certainty... but if you hold them who knows? .uk could end up flopping like .mobi

Purely from a selfish angle, I couldn't care less how they launch it. With some methods I get a guaranteed win, with others its a more speculative gamble. I don't see any of them being better or worse really. Which is probably why I'm one of the only few people on this thread who is able to comment objectively - its pretty obvious when other people are pushing an agenda (this comment not aimed at you)

 

[GreyWing]

Graeme how many people work for QuickLoans.co.uk ? actual real people, who would be hit financially should .uk start to kill it, given that the .org.uk owner will get the .uk.

Should I fail to get the .uk and the search engines favour .uk and public lose faith in .co.uk for .uk, and 80% of that sites traffic is search engine based, I'll be winding that up and telling 3 people sorry, heres a p45.

Any other domainers wanna estimate (on their own domains I mean) ?

2 real people at QL, and the financial sites I manage.

7 (that includes 2 part time) were planned to start at HGV.co.uk as well as investment halted on that site (That was halted at first announcement of .uk in oct.) That was a JV with Mark Goldberg Recruitment guy ex Crystal Palace Chairman. Was a 6 weeks away from launching before plug pulled. That included 25k investment for the madgex job software board. So they lost out too.

Maybe 1 more, possibly part time to work on some admin work for us. Then just the money we would have spent with third party suppliers like web designers. Claire and Amy have seen their content services drop off.

So already had a noticeable affect for us.

 

[Retired_Member42]

This is an interesting one as purely from a search perspective, it's quickloans.org.uk which ranks highest for the exact match phrase. Obviously I've no idea how much quickloans.co.uk makes, what he spends on promotion and who he employs. But if given the .org.uk is ranking higher, is generating more traffic and ultimately more revenue - age aside - shouldn't they get the .uk? What makes him less deserving than the .co.uk? (no CCL comments please).

Graeme how many people work for QuickLoans.co.uk ? actual real people, who would be hit financially should .uk start to kill it, given that the .org.uk owner will get the .uk.

Monkey talks about generating jobs, but I want to talk about the people who will lose jobs. One of my sites which carries stock is run on a majority percentage by James and his missus, also paid by that is a student who does the graphic design for banners, special offers, and other artwork monthly, a small business with 3 lock ups leases one for storage, the hosting company is paid, someone was paid to build the site, I bought the domains for x,xxx about 5-6yrs ago, and the .me.uk predates my .co.uk and .org.uk by around 5 months.

Should I fail to get the .uk and the search engines favour .uk and public lose faith in .co.uk for .uk, and 80% of that sites traffic is search engine based, I'll be winding that up and telling 3 people sorry, heres a p45.

The same will go for the other work I would be giving out from the other .co.uk's where I fail to secure the .uk, I will NOT be ploughing money into the .co.uk once .uk comes out for the exact same reason I do not "do" .org/me.uk's now. they are not the premium platform so how many jobs are lost ?

Any other domainers wanna estimate (on their own domains I mean) ?

 

[GreyWing]

This is an interesting one as purely from a search perspective, it's quickloans.org.uk which ranks highest for the exact match phrase. Obviously I've no idea how much quickloans.co.uk makes, what he spends on promotion and who he employs. But if given the .org.uk is ranking higher, is generating more traffic and ultimately more revenue - age aside - shouldn't they get the .uk? What makes him less deserving than the .co.uk? (no CCL comments please).

It ranks higher because I removed it from Google via webmaster tools due to hacking in Google. People round here know my stance on Google, it's well documented. I was getting 10 phone calls a day from people who were scammed. They were getting my phone number from google via "contact Quick Loans" we were top for that but "quick loans" were all hacked sites. So we were taking the crap and non of the custom... bye bye Google

 

[Bailey]

.uk could end up flopping like .mobi

Sorry, but that is sooooo funny (I had to quote) :-D:???:

At the end of the day, hopefully, we learn to invest wisely - just don't take it out on those that do it better

 

[Retired_Member38]

Graeme how many people work for QuickLoans.co.uk ? actual real people, who would be hit financially should .uk start to kill it, given that the .org.uk owner will get the .uk.

Monkey talks about generating jobs, but I want to talk about the people who will lose jobs. One of my sites which carries stock is run on a majority percentage by James and his missus, also paid by that is a student who does the graphic design for banners, special offers, and other artwork monthly, a small business with 3 lock ups leases one for storage, the hosting company is paid, someone was paid to build the site, I bought the domains for x,xxx about 5-6yrs ago, and the .me.uk predates my .co.uk and .org.uk by around 5 months.

Should I fail to get the .uk and the search engines favour .uk and public lose faith in .co.uk for .uk, and 80% of that sites traffic is search engine based, I'll be winding that up and telling 3 people sorry, heres a p45.

The same will go for the other work I would be giving out from the other .co.uk's where I fail to secure the .uk, I will NOT be ploughing money into the .co.uk once .uk comes out for the exact same reason I do not "do" .org/me.uk's now. they are not the premium platform so how many jobs are lost ?

Any other domainers wanna estimate (on their own domains I mean) ?

There is a whole lot of 'ifs' in that scenario about the p45's. If you're that reliant on search engine traffic it could happen either way - one wrong turn and a WMT tools warning and those 3 people are out of a job just the same. Thats way more likely to happen than .uk launching causing you issues. Google aren't going to suddenly devalue .co.uk - the worst that happens is you have an exact match domain, someone else gets the .uk and outranks you, and you drop 1 place on that specific phrase.

If that does happen to you then you probably suck at seo and he's doing you a favour by pointing it out Bear in mind all of the time advantage you've got on him, all the built up trust and links and so on - people really shouldn't be getting overtaken by .uk's unless they're doing something drastically wrong.

I think for most people the reality is that if they need a domain that is predated by the .me.uk... they'll be able to get it. He might gouge you on price for £1000 or whatever... but you'll pay it and you're secure. Everyone still has their jobs and life goes on.

 

[Retired_Member42]

It ranks higher because I removed it from Google via webmaster tools due to hacking in Google. People round here know my stance on Google, it's well documented. I was getting 10 phone calls a day from people who were scammed. They were getting my phone number from google via "contact Quick Loans" we were top for that but "quick loans" were all hacked sites. So we were taking the crap and non of the custom... bye bye Google

There seems to be a lot of that with common/generic phrases. What's the plan for the domain itself given the proposed .uk issue and the obvious dislike of search engines?

 

[GreyWing]

There seems to be a lot of that with common/generic phrases. What's the plan for the domain itself given the proposed .uk issue and the obvious dislike of search engines?

We do a lot of traffic through bing, and a lot just type in according to our stats. But we are redeveloping it and next week will have new site that won't need search engines.

It's going to be a peer to peer payday loan site (1 month loan site to be more accurate). Lenders and borrowers decide rates, so will be cheaper than 10,000% apr. Was going to launch last week but got tied up with this stuff.

Plan is that if .uk launches, we take legal action against whoever sets up on .uk for being confusingly similar to our trading name. That and all the others we own. Nominet say we don't have rights, law says otherwise.

 

[Retired_Member42]

This is quite interesting as obviously there are a lot of generic phrases out there with different owners of each extension. In some niches all with competing sites. I'd genuinely like to know what the law says on this? I'm not trying to judge you in any way. There is nothing wrong in taking steps to ensure the longevity of your venture but purely from a personal standpoint. I've like to know what the grounds are? I'm assuming you'll take action against the .uk version passing off but on such a generic phrase I'm not sure how this would be possible? Especially as the current .org.uk has more trading history than your .co.uk? If it is something as simple as passing off can you not simply take action against the .org.uk now, claim their domain and be awarded the .uk anyway?

 

[Skinner]

I don't do the SEO, James delegates that, and in 5-6 yrs its been running he's not made a mistake, no black and white creatures have affected it, so I'd say the only likely threat is .uk, but yes lots of ifs granted.

The question is do I put the £1,000 for example on this site, or do I put it on another, I don't have £100s of thousands to fight battles on every front, so its highly probable this site will be a direct victim of .uk.

There is a whole lot of 'ifs' in that scenario about the p45's. If you're that reliant on search engine traffic it could happen either way - one wrong turn and a WMT tools warning and those 3 people are out of a job just the same. Thats way more likely to happen than .uk launching causing you issues. Google aren't going to suddenly devalue .co.uk - the worst that happens is you have an exact match domain, someone else gets the .uk and outranks you, and you drop 1 place on that specific phrase.

If that does happen to you then you probably suck at seo and he's doing you a favour by pointing it out Bear in mind all of the time advantage you've got on him, all the built up trust and links and so on - people really shouldn't be getting overtaken by .uk's unless they're doing something drastically wrong.

I think for most people the reality is that if they need a domain that is predated by the .me.uk... they'll be able to get it. He might gouge you on price for £1000 or whatever... but you'll pay it and you're secure. Everyone still has their jobs and life goes on.