Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[Retired_Member42]

I believe he's referring to real businesses owning the domains themselves. Not implying that Edwin isn't running a real business. I think you're aware of that but I just wanted to point it out incase.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Edwin does not conduct a real business?

That is not a sustainable or even arguable position.

Its a real business... but its a destructive one with the only winner being the owner.

Lets hear an argument as to how someone sitting on thousands of domains is an overall benefit to the UK internet industry. All that its doing is preventing lots of people being able to develop the domain they want, for the profit of one person.

I'm not saying Edwin shouldn't do it... but its a bit silly for anyone to try and call it anything other than it is. Its a business that benefits one person, at the cost of everyone else.

Yes other businesses could buy their domains from him... but they might not be able to justify the prices. I know you're going to say 'edwins domains, he can sell them for what he likes'. And thats completely true. But when he's selling domains for £2500+ and the .org.uk is free to reg... its pretty clear that by any reasonable measure they're overpriced, no?

Regardless... edwin bought these domains fair and square and he could do absolutely anything he wants with them. But its ridiculous that anyone can take the position that anyone in that situation, should just be handed loads more of a new extension to repeat the process with.

 

[GreyWing]

Edwin does not conduct a real business?

That is not a sustainable or even arguable position.

Weird, he pays real taxes

 

[scooter]

I think thats pretty much too bad... confusion is the risk you take when you build a site on a generic. Its unavoidable.

No. The confusion ONLY arises by Nominet opening a new commercial namespace in direct competition to a commercial namespace that already exists.

I do not know where you are coming from monkey. One minute you are having a pop at domainers the next you are happy if .uk goes ahead as you are lined up to make between 30K and £2million

I presume this is only possible if you are holding domain names. Just like Edwin



.

 

[Bailey]

Weird, he pays real taxes

Shame we get (by acorns popularity) some real narks these days. I'm still looking for a post that questioned my 'investment start-out day' on domains. - just because - I'm ready to bite

Still love my about 100th domain buy TheDon.com. once I had learnt that .com's held the field.

Edwin is a great guy - anyone that doesn't dive away from a justifiable argument is worth your time

 

[Retired_Member38]

I do not know where you are coming from monkey. One minute you are having a pop at domainers the next you are happy if .uk goes ahead as you are lined up to make between 30K and £2million

I've made it extremely clear what my opinion is, and its never changed. I don't think the method of giving current domain owners a first crack at .uk is fair. I think they should publicly auction them all. This would cost me significant amounts of money, but it would be the fairest way to release a new extension.

If they are going to give them to oldest reg date, .co.uk owners, or whoever deserves it most then of course I'm going to take them. But my opinion still isn't going to change... I'll be posting here saying I'm getting gifted something I don't deserve. I will absolutely be taking them though, as if I don't, someone else will.

I don't think the proposals are fair. I do stand to make significant sums of cash if they are implemented. I hope where I stand is now perfectly clear - if not I'm happy to clarify it

 

[Retired_Member42]

I've nothing against people selling domain names personally, or even doing it for a living. If a guy bought a domain for £20 and it's worth £20 million a few years later, good luck to him. Real premium domains having high price tags is no issue for me. If I want it, I'll buy it, if I don't, I'll move on. My issue is with people sitting on thousands of absolutely crap domains and offering it for ridiculous money. Perhaps some mug will buy the odd few and it pays the renewal feels for the rest of them but it's not exactly fair to be pricing domains so highly when the demand for the given domain is so slim and a buyer will come along once in a blue moon. But, I can live with that. To then give that same person another few thousand domains to simply sit on and sell for the same money does not help anyone other than the domainer himself. He's not going to split his pricing down the middle to make them more accessible. He's going to sit on them until he can profit. This doesn't help Nominet with its goal and it doesn't help the UK online industry. It's legal robbery.

 

[viceroy]

So what are we discussing direct.uk for? Let's (as domainers) keep really quiet, push thus through as fast as possible without anyone noticing and hoover up the valuable corresponding .uk's? We know that Nominet can't legally send out a mass mailing to registrants so the ones in the know are going to benefit the most.
There's already a negative view of 'doing nothing' with a domain, why don't we reinforce that?
Edwin is taking a constructive part in direct.uk - I think that I could name a few large portfolio holders that haven't added anything (positive or not) to the debate - let's take pot shots at them rather...

Confusion and the other risks (to the majority registrants, ie. the public & small businesses) highlighted at the first meetings are still not being addressed. It seems that v2 is to appease the vocal and get this through.

A lot of people won't take the .uk even although they could have. And a lot of them will take it and then sell it on... so it will open things up a bit.

I suspect some people take it up 'because its only a fiver' and don't even realise the true value of it. They will no doubt get loads of emails from people wanting to buy it in the first month or two and they will quickly realise. So a lot of these domains will change hands. Whether the original owner regrets selling it later will be a whole different ballgame... but it will open things up for sure.




I think thats pretty much too bad... confusion is the risk you take when you build a site on a generic. Its unavoidable.

 

[Skinner]

I still think the best option is to let anyone with a .org or .co register BEFORE the announcement of this proposal should go head to head in auction, but ONLY those who bought in.

Monkey is happyish, and I suspect most others will be happyish, the only losers are those who didn't buy into the game at all, and those who wanted a get rich quick scheme.

Best of a crap situ.

 

[GreyWing]

I've nothing against people selling domain names personally, or even doing it for a living. If a guy bought a domain for £20 and it's worth £20 million a few years later, good luck to him. Real premium domains having high price tags is no issue for me. If I want it, I'll buy it, if I don't, I'll move on. My issue is with people sitting on thousands of absolutely crap domains and offering it for ridiculous money. Perhaps some mug will buy the odd few and it pays the renewal feels for the rest of them but it's not exactly fair to be pricing domains so highly when the demand for the given domain is so slim and a buyer will come along once in a blue moon. But, I can live with that. To then give that same person another few thousand domains to simply sit on and sell for the same money does not help anyone other than the domainer himself. He's not going to split his pricing down the middle to make them more accessible. He's going to sit on them until he can profit. This doesn't help Nominet with its goal and it doesn't help the UK online industry. It's legal robbery.

What utter nonsense, why don't you pop down the Town Hall or Parliament and tell them why you think they should take someone's empty shop or property off them because they didn't develop it or move into it quick enough.

Let's keep this mildly serious.

 

[viceroy]

So how do you suggest that the .uk domains are distributed?

I've nothing against people selling domain names personally, or even doing it for a living. If a guy bought a domain for £20 and it's worth £20 million a few years later, good luck to him. Real premium domains having high price tags is no issue for me. If I want it, I'll buy it, if I don't, I'll move on. My issue is with people sitting on thousands of absolutely crap domains and offering it for ridiculous money. Perhaps some mug will buy the odd few and it pays the renewal feels for the rest of them but it's not exactly fair to be pricing domains so highly when the demand for the given domain is so slim and a buyer will come along once in a blue moon. But, I can live with that. To then give that same person another few thousand domains to simply sit on and sell for the same money does not help anyone other than the domainer himself. He's not going to split his pricing down the middle to make them more accessible. He's going to sit on them until he can profit. This doesn't help Nominet with its goal and it doesn't help the UK online industry. It's legal robbery.

 

[Retired_Member42]

To use your analogy. I'm not saying take the shop off them. I'm telling them not to give them a second shop for free and sell it for 20x what the shop next door is worth.

 

[Retired_Member42]

So how do you suggest that the .uk domains are distributed?

I put my proposal forward a few pages back but it was probably overlooked with some moaning and defending of domainers in general

 

[Retired_Member38]

What utter nonsense, why don't you pop down the Town Hall or Parliament and tell them why you think they should take someone's empty shop or property off them because they didn't develop it or move into it quick enough.

Let's keep this mildly serious.

But its not taking a shop off of anyone - its simply not giving them another shop for £5, and letting them hold it for the next 10 years while waiting for a £2000 offer. They still have their original shop - they haven't lost anything (apart from it being slightly devalued by now having a neighbour)

 

[GreyWing]

To use your analogy. I'm not saying take the shop off them. I'm telling them not to give them a second shop for free and sell it for 20x what the shop next door is worth.

There shop is their presence on the primary commerce platform of the UK internet, so yes you are.

 

[Retired_Member42]

But there is no presence. That's the problem. If there was, I wouldn't have any objections. Owning a domain and listing it for sale for 20x it's value is not a commercial presence in my opinion.

 

[scooter]

I've made it extremely clear what my opinion is, and its never changed. I don't think the method of giving current domain owners a first crack at .uk is fair. I think they should publicly auction them all. This would cost me significant amounts of money, but it would be the fairest way to release a new extension.

If they are going to give them to oldest reg date, .co.uk owners, or whoever deserves it most then of course I'm going to take them. But my opinion still isn't going to change... I'll be posting here saying I'm getting gifted something I don't deserve. I will absolutely be taking them though, as if I don't, someone else will.

I don't think the proposals are fair. I do stand to make significant sums of cash if they are implemented. I hope where I stand is now perfectly clear - if not I'm happy to clarify it

I think the whole thing is a load of bollocks and should never go ahead in the first place.

If it does then the last thing I would want to see is names going to auction. This is not only immoral but must surely verge on the illegal. Legitimate co.uk owners are now going to have to go to auction to protect their namespace? Can you not now see what a farce the whole thing is?

.uk should never be introduced unless they can prove there is a legitimate reason for it and if they can, they need to prove why co.uk should coexist beside it.

Again, I ask you....
Why do you think what Edwin does is any different to what you do?
Why is your smaller portfolio different from Edwin's larger portfolio? How can you criticise Edwin when you are happy to make large gains from your own names?

You state at worst you will make £30k from the debacle but if names go to auction you will make up to £2million.

If that is the case maybe Edwin at worst will make £2million and if names go to auction he will make 10million. What is the difference if you hold 10 names or 10,000 names?



.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Again, I ask you....
Why do you think what Edwin does is any different to what you do?
Why is your smaller portfolio different from Edwin's larger portfolio? How can you criticise Edwin when you are happy to make large gains from your own names?

You state at worst you will make £30k from the debacle but if names go to auction you will make up to £2million.

If that is the case maybe Edwin at worst will make £2million and if names go to auction he will make 10million. What is the difference if you hold 10 names or 10,000 names?

There is a huge difference. I have legitimate websites on most of the domains I own. The ones that don't have one yet, are in the queue to be done. I'm not holding any domains with the intention of not using them.

Edwin is potentially preventing 6000 people from developing sites. Again to be clear I don't object to him doing that as such - they are his domains and he is free to do with them whatever he likes. What I do object to is him being gifted 1000's more of them at reg fee, to repeat the process with. He bought the first lot and can park them till 2050 for all I care... but its bizarre for anyone to argue that Nominet should gift edwin a load more. They don't owe him a living, and they're doing the uk internet industry in general a massive disservice if they go down that route.

 

[GreyWing]

There is a huge difference. I have legitimate websites on most of the domains I own. The ones that don't have one yet, are in the queue to be done. I'm not holding any domains with the intention of not using them.

Neither are 99% of people that will lose out mate. I'm same as you, I'm not a domain reseller. I run real sites and businesses for myself and others and others are in the que to be developed, not sold.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Neither are 99% of people that will lose out mate. I'm same as you, I'm not a domain reseller. I run real sites and businesses for myself and others and others are in the que to be developed, not sold.

I'm of the opinion that .uk is coming, regardless of what anyone says or does. So if you already accept that as inevitable, its just looking at the next best way to do it.

Some people are going to lose domains they want - nothing we can do about that. If you at least keep portfolio owners from capturing 1000's of them to hold to ransom... you'll get some other people happy that they got a domain that they wanted.

I'd be perfectly happy if they scrapped .uk altogether and kept the status quo - but I have to be realistic and plan for that not to happen.