Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[scooter]

Okay well you go campaign against it then. Its obviously going to launch so your campaign will be a complete waste and time. You need to pick and choose your battles and imho you've lost this one before it begun so why bother? Spending your time pushing a least worst solution makes more sense.


But you could say go ask a bunch of high street shop owners 'do you want a new out of town retail park with free parking to get planning permission?'. They're all going to say no because it suits their own financial position. And just like domains, they might have had the 'best' location when they set up... but things move on.

You can't really only ask a group of people who are going to be negatively affected if they want something. That answer is already a forgone conclusion. What you need to be asking is 'is this plan good for business in general?'

There are some .uk domains that if I could get my hands on them I'd be perfectly willing to invest £200-500k in a new business surrounding them. So more jobs created, and more tax paid.

I think all the doom and gloom for current .co.uk owners is mostly just self serving nonsense from a bunch of domainers. And to be realistic... domainers shouldn't be given any favours here or have any real say in things. Real businesses should take priority. Its not going to be a disaster for the tiny % of businesses who end up not getting the equivalent .uk domain. Their customers will find their current sites just fine.

Is that it then? You have given up?
Were you against the original proposal? But now everything is ok.?

"lets just take what we can and be thankful" as it is now more appealing?

Your argument about the high st is irrelevant. We are not talking about physical space. We are talking about virtual space. Do you see a Tesco's superstore in the real world built 10 yards away from an asda superstore?
I doubt you ever will as it makes no commercial sense.


I'm not saying my proposal is right but what I am saying is why is the majority on here happy to go with the new proposal when the original proposal was not right in the first place and that was to introduce a new commercial namespace to a place where there is an existing commercial namespace?

I have the exact opposite at heart than you state. I have about 50 domain names. I am not a domainer but I am a business man who makes a living online. My main business is not even on a uk domain but it doess not mean I cannot speak out for what I believe in what is right.

You (and many others on here including Edwin) lose focus. Why are you giving up? You fought hard against the first proposal but now lets accept it and get the best out of it we can?

You should only do the latter once the fight has been lost. Not before.
You guys are rolling over before a decision has even been made.


Nominet are making make things up as they go along and going back to what Grant rightly states....
Where is the PROOF a new commercial namespace is required? and more so where is the PROOF it is required to run alongside and in direct competition with commercial namespace that is already there?


Nominet's focus was solely on providing a new namespace for the UK by introducing a secure DNSSEC system. Only on page 4 do they mention new tlds:
The global domain space is due to change significantly next year with the introduction of potentially hundresds of new top level domains. A clearly defined well-operated .uk namespace has the potential to reduce consumer confusion and crearte a more secure home for uk business online.

Roll forward to the latest proposal:
No mention of exclusive DNSSEC. That has gone. Surprise, surprise and we have gone from a price of £20 down to a bargain of only £5. You could not make this stuff up.

What do we have as the new introduction? ...
The domain name market is undergoing a major transition, with a new and more competitive market emerging, driven by the introduction of over 1,000 new top level domains from 2014. The .uk namespace is a vital building block for the UK’s digital economy, and Nominet is focusing its efforts on an ambitious programme to secure its long-term relevance and competitiveness. The company has been examining the breadth of the products and services it offers, with security and data-quality increasingly important areas of focus.


I'll counter your argument monkey. The real winners of the proposed change are domainers. To real businesses it is just an additional expense as they are forced to shore up what they have or to a newcomer it means reggin 2 domains instead of one if they want to protect their interests.




.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I'm not going to fight against a proposal that I'm going to gain money from, given that it's not going to kill anyone, and nobody is going to end up homeless or jobless because of it. I'll win some and lose some specific domains no matter how they implement it... but however they do it I'm going to be stuffing my wallet with some extra cash.

I have been perfectly clear on what I think they should do, even if it wouldn't benefit me (public auction of all domains). But I'm not going to spend my time and money fighting against something like this - I'll just bank the cheques I get from it instead.

"Do you see a Tesco's superstore in the real world built 10 yards away from an asda superstore?
I doubt you ever will as it makes no commercial sense. "

I doubt you will no, purely because of the size of them. There is no room. Burger King, KFC & McDonalds etc deliberately try and take retail locations next to each other though... either way its a bit of a pointless comparison so won't go any further on that one.

From a selfish point of view I want them to release .uk. I"m going to make 30 to 50 thousand £ in the disaster scenario of them doing it in the absolute worst possible way for me. With a little bit of luck I'll make multiples of that. If they do it in some sort of auction format then who knows. I'll land somewhere between losing £300,000 and making £2m. I'm certainly not going to campaign against this, I want it to happen now.

 

[scooter]

Then you speak with a forked tongue:
I think all the doom and gloom for current .co.uk owners is mostly just self serving nonsense from a bunch of domainers. And to be realistic... domainers shouldn't be given any favours here or have any real say in things. Real businesses should take priority.



.

 

[Retired_Member42]

From a personal stand point domain wise I'll be about even but I'm looking forward to .uk being released and driving the price down of .co.uk and even .org.uk with it being third choice extension. If I can rank .co.uk and .org.uk as easily as I can do now but get the domains even cheaper because of the .uk option - happy days.

So no, not interesting in "fighting" it either. I am just against people getting ripped off either by handing domainers .uk for free to sell for ridiculous prices or established sites, regardless of what extension they're using, losing .uk to another party.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Then you speak with a forked tongue:
I think all the doom and gloom for current .co.uk owners is mostly just self serving nonsense from a bunch of domainers. And to be realistic... domainers shouldn't be given any favours here or have any real say in things. Real businesses should take priority.



.

Again I've been perfectly clear from day 1 of this - I've offered up a solution that I think would be fair, and wouldn't benefit me in any shape or form. Bear in mind the .org.uk domains I own - version 1 of this proposal would have benefited me massively, yet I was saying its fairer to publicly auction everything.

I still stand by that point - it should go to public auction, and real businesses will pay what the domains are worth.

But if they aren't going to do that, then of course I'm going to take what is effectively free money being handed to me. Who wouldn't?

 

[Jump]

I would prefer they done a fairness test and gave it to the most deserving

That is exactly what they have done, or are seeking to do; apply a test to give .uk names to the most deserving.

 

[Retired_Member38]

That is exactly what they have done, or are seeking to do; apply a test to give .uk names to the most deserving.

How did you come to that conclusion

All I've seen is a proposal to let the .org.uk/.co.uk/me.uk enter an auction for it, and a proposal to give it to the oldest registrant. I've not seen anything to say they're looking to do it in a fair or deserving way.

 

[Jump]

I'm saying because its harmful for UK business for you to sit on another 3000 .uk domains, when they could have went to people who have a legitimate use for them.

Owning 3000 names is not a legitimate use? Nominet do not agree with you on that. There is just no objective basis for this view; your views appear to be based on dogma.

 

[Jump]

How did you come to that conclusion

All I've seen is a proposal to let the .org.uk/.co.uk/me.uk enter an auction for it, and a proposal to give it to the oldest registrant. I've not seen anything to say they're looking to do it in a fair or deserving way.

Whether or not you agree that Nominet have been successful is a separate issue, but their objectives is as I said.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Owning 3000 names is not a legitimate use? Nominet do not agree with you on that. There is just no objective basis for this view; your views appear to be based on dogma.

Its a legitimate use in that its not breaking the Nominet rules, and its perfectly legal.

But if .uk is meant to encourage growth in the UK internet industry, what do you think is a better use of these new domains - vanishing into Edwins portfolio to be resold at a 200x multiple, or ending up with people who will use them to create a business?

Both uses perfectly legitimate... but its pretty clear to me which one Nominet should be encouraging.

 

[Jump]

Its a legitimate use in that its not breaking the Nominet rules, and its perfectly legal.

But if .uk is meant to encourage growth in the UK internet industry, what do you think is a better use of these new domains - vanishing into Edwins portfolio to be resold at a 200x multiple, or ending up with people who will use them to create a business?

Both uses perfectly legitimate... but its pretty clear to me which one Nominet should be encouraging.

But Edwin's potfolio *is* the industry, or part of it. His voice and use is as "legitimate" as any other.

 

[Retired_Member38]

But Edwin's potfolio *is* the industry, or part of it. His voice and use is as "legitimate" as any other.

You're clutching at straws with that one. If Edwin is given 3000+ new domains to sell, the only winner is Edwin. If real businesses are given the chance at these, there could be loads of winners, loads of new jobs and so on.

The only people who can seriously argue for domain portfolio owners to be stuffed with thousands of new domains, are domain portfolio owners. What value add is there to giving them to these people? The value add is absolutely zero.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I agree the person with 1 domain or 3000 domains should have a voice. But Nominet want to encourage growth in the .uk domain industry. Not only make a few extra £ in registrant fees from Edwin. Whilst giving thousands of domains to domainers to sit on for another 10 years increases Nominets bottom line. It doesn't encourage growth of the .uk domain industry. Growth could be achieved a lot quicker if 3,000 different people had the chance to get their businesses out there without being priced out of the game by sitting people sitting on their ideal domain.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I think a lot of people here need to realise that .uk domain names are intended for people to actually use them. Nominet are not there to make domainers a living. You talk as if you're a partner of Nominet and should decide how businesses get their domains, how much they should pay and who is entitled to what but it always comes back to the same thing, what is going to make you the most £.

 

[GreyWing]

You're clutching at straws with that one. If Edwin is given 3000+ new domains to sell, the only winner is Edwin. If real businesses are given the chance at these, there could be loads of winners, loads of new jobs and so on.

But you could say that about removing trademarks, patents, more companies start up, more jobs.... but it is infringing on their built up, bought and paid for IP in my opinion.

 

[viceroy]

By giving an option to either .org.uk or .co.uk owners to 'get' the .uk version, nominet are NOT creating more available names for general registration. The original premise that they're 'opening up' the second level is a bit of a farce tbh. After .org.uk, .co.uk, .me.uk, .ltd.uk, etc. get a shot at the corresponding .uk, there'll be almost exactly the same amount of useful ftr names as the present...
First off: Direct.uk - don't do it!

If they are going to go ahead with it, fair enough, give it to the oldest reg (the only other way is to give it to the .co.uk owner) but what happens when the .org.uk owner sell to the competitor of the .co.uk who has nothing to do with the domain in the first place?
Nobody can deny that the general public wont get confused between .co.uk and .uk businesses, especially where generics are concerned.

This is purely a vanity and cash generation exercise and Nominet should be held to account for this.

 

[Jump]

People have been there from the start (90s) have heard this view endless times: you have a name that I want and I do not want to pay for it and so because my use is more legitimate than your use you should give me. Never has anyone asked me to stay in my Aspen apartment for free (or cheap) because I am not using it but over and over and over again they ask when it comes to domains.

Portfolio holding is one legitimate use. So is the legitimate use of registering one domain.

Nominet need to do their best to take *everyone* into account, including large portfolio holders (whose business model they have supported for years), and come up with the least worse scenario.

I think their current proposal is a good effort. It's simplicity makes it very elegant.

 

[Jump]

You're clutching at straws with that one. If Edwin is given 3000+ new domains to sell, the only winner is Edwin. If real businesses are given the chance at these, there could be loads of winners, loads of new jobs and so on.

Edwin does not conduct a real business?

That is not a sustainable or even arguable position.

 

[Jump]

You're clutching at straws with that one. If Edwin is given 3000+ new domains to sell, the only winner is Edwin. If real businesses are given the chance at these, there could be loads of winners, loads of new jobs and so on.

Any one of the real businesses you refer to could buy one of the names you refer to, from Edwin, ie from his "legitimate" business.

 

[Retired_Member38]

By giving an option to either .org.uk or .co.uk owners to 'get' the .uk version, nominet are NOT creating more available names for general registration. The original premise that they're 'opening up' the second level is a bit of a farce tbh. After .org.uk, .co.uk, .me.uk, .ltd.uk, etc. get a shot at the corresponding .uk, there'll be almost exactly the same amount of useful ftr names as the present...
First off: Direct.uk - don't do it!

A lot of people won't take the .uk even although they could have. And a lot of them will take it and then sell it on... so it will open things up a bit.

I suspect some people take it up 'because its only a fiver' and don't even realise the true value of it. They will no doubt get loads of emails from people wanting to buy it in the first month or two and they will quickly realise. So a lot of these domains will change hands. Whether the original owner regrets selling it later will be a whole different ballgame... but it will open things up for sure.

Nobody can deny that the general public wont get confused between .co.uk and .uk businesses, especially where generics are concerned.

I think thats pretty much too bad... confusion is the risk you take when you build a site on a generic. Its unavoidable.