EU Referendum

[BeachLife]

Why on earth would they risk that?

Because if they give us whatever we want, others will want the same. This is politics, not rational arguments.

That's about £41bn trade surplus they'd be kissing bye bye to.

No, they are not kissing it all bye bye, a tariff is not going to stop all of it, is it? It may affect it negatively, but to what extent, 5% decrease, 10%? They may think that worth it.

 

[Toonz]

Apologies if this has already been posted

EU Referendum ‘Rigged’: Conspiracy Theory Believed By Half Of ‘Brexit’ Supporters, Says YouGov Poll

The EU referendum is rigged, has been infiltrated by MI5, and the BBC and ITN are conspiring to fix the result, a poll has showed a lot people are thinking.

An astonishing YouGov poll for LBC reveals the deep distrust of institutions and their handling of Thursday’s vote - with Leave supporters notably more suspicious.

Specifically, almost half of those backing ‘Brexit’ believe it is “probably true” that the outcome is pre-determined.

[Read more]​

Does anyone here (beyond our resident conspiracy theorist) suspect the result will be rigged? Notwithstanding the intent of the establishment, is it even possible to rig a national British election?

 

[signature]

You were doing quite well until the immigration bit because obviously all this is about opinion.
However when you got to immigration, then you are denying the facts. The reason we have not seen immigration at 333,000 for 20 years was because the countries providing us with the migrants were not members. Will it remain that high for the next 20 years ? the answer is no, it will definitely increase, as it has done for the years since underprivileged nations have joined. So population swell every year by the amount of a city the size of Newcastle or every 3 years the size of Birmingham. 1,000,000 every 3 years not including offspring which will probably double that amount. Make no mistake this is the biggest challenge this country has in the future. It's OK blaming government, but they won't be able to stop it and have no hope of providing housing.

I am glad you add the word "Opinion" we can leave it at that.

 

[signature]

surprised they had the mayor on that BBC forum. He calls it a hate campaign if you talk about immigration. Nobody in the leave has brought up terrorist threats as a consequence of free movement and yet his position on that subject is a bit dubious.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-raise-doubts-suitability-London-s-mayor.html

Yes, the leave campaign sometimes feel like a hate campaign and it feels like hate sometimes on this thread.

On Sadiq Khan, I hope you realise he is already a Mayor, not sure your point in posting another Daily Mail election Cr*p.

 

[dougs]

The Rotterdam effect means that we have little clue what is really sent to the EU. The Rotterdam effect being that we put goods on a ship to export to China, the ship stops in Rotterdam for a sandwich and they count that as an export from the UK to the EU, even though the goods don't move off the ship.

Even the ONS say they don't really know what the real stats are.

Let's say that your figures are right though, but break it down into countries rather than the EU as a whole because certain countries export significantly more to us than other EU countries.

We all know Germany run the EU, not really a secret. Germany has a 50bn+ euro (it was 54bn in 2014) trade surplus with the UK each year. Why on earth would they risk that?

That's about £41bn trade surplus they'd be kissing bye bye to.

Because if they make it easy then other EU countries may say we want to leave and get the great deal the UK got...bang end of EU

 

[spiderspider]

Dougs, just out of interest, your location flag says USA, are you able to vote in the referendum?

I didn't watch the MPs mass debating on TV last night. But have seen the chosen highlights from the BBC this morning. From the live text they reported last night, made it sound like remain had bugger all to offer, and their clips this morning are just pre-written scripted comments from the London Mayor.

 

[Admin]

Dougs, just out of interest, your location flag says USA, are you able to vote in the referendum?

Point of information for you... the location flags are dynamic so reflect where you currently are not necessarily where you reside..

 

[websaway]

Yes, the leave campaign sometimes feel like a hate campaign and it feels like hate sometimes on this thread.

On Sadiq Khan, I hope you realise he is already a Mayor, not sure your point in posting another Daily Mail election Cr*p.

Hate is a very sensitive issue and I think the mayors alleged links to terrorism makes him a target. He is making allegations that all people who are anti uncontrolled immigration are somehow involved in a hate campaign. I would simply remind him that people in glass houses should not throw stones . BTW I have not seen hate so plainly displayed as his attitude to the three opposite him last night, especially the ex mayor. If the remain camp want to introduce the hate agenda which has replaced the race card then it should work both ways. That is only common sense surely.
When he said "your project was not project fear but project hate" that was an insult to all leavers.

 

[websaway]

I am glad you add the word "Opinion" we can leave it at that.

Yes, as I said most of the content of this debate are opinions. Immigration numbers are not an opinion, they are fact. 333,000 per year, a city the size of Newcastle. How will they build the houses and where will they put them. The more successful our economy the more will come.
So the more pressure on schools, more pressure on the health service, more pressure on housing.

 

[websaway]

Apologies if this has already been posted

EU Referendum ‘Rigged’: Conspiracy Theory Believed By Half Of ‘Brexit’ Supporters, Says YouGov Poll

The EU referendum is rigged, has been infiltrated by MI5, and the BBC and ITN are conspiring to fix the result, a poll has showed a lot people are thinking.

An astonishing YouGov poll for LBC reveals the deep distrust of institutions and their handling of Thursday’s vote - with Leave supporters notably more suspicious.

Specifically, almost half of those backing ‘Brexit’ believe it is “probably true” that the outcome is pre-determined.

[Read more]​

Does anyone here (beyond our resident conspiracy theorist) suspect the result will be rigged? Notwithstanding the intent of the establishment, is it even possible to rig a national British election?

The biggest insult in this campaign is the remain camp calling the leave campaign a hate campaign. If someone knocks on my door and says they want to come in and I say they can't , it's not because I hate them, I don't even know them, I don't hate them. I am beginning to hate the people who use that tactic, so not good for unity.

But is that what it's designed to do, create disunity.

 

[Mark84]

No, they are not kissing it all bye bye, a tariff is not going to stop all of it, is it? It may affect it negatively, but to what extent, 5% decrease, 10%? They may think that worth it.

Exactcly.... Surely then that would be the same as our exports? Might dip a bit with tariffs but wouldn't disappear?

Because if they make it easy then other EU countries may say we want to leave and get the great deal the UK got...bang end of EU

Totally agree, but the fact that they would rather lose out rather than give us what they want will only bring the downfall of the EU even closer.

It's over anyway, the EU is burning down as we speak. France is bankrupt and break Euro rules, in July Greece goes back for another bailout. Spain and Portugal have massive youth unemployment. Germany with it's massive migrant crisis, Austria will elect a right wing government in a few years.

Sounds like we are onto a winner boys

 

[BREWSTERS]

Issue is they buy 45% of our stuff, we buy 7% of theirs....not a good negotating start point.

They also can't be really nice to us as others may leave.

Value wise, we buy more from the EU than we sell. The UK is the largest export market for many EU countries.

 

[Mark84]

German Business Chief calls for no trade barriers post Brexit.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/g...lls-possibility-post-brexit-barriers-foolish/

“Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century. The BDI would urge politicians on both sides to come up with a trade regime that enables us to uphold and maintain the levels of trade we have”

 

[BREWSTERS]

But their prime minster says be warned:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...the-u-k-shouldnt-follow-our-lead-post-brexit/

ALL the political leaders want the EU to remain, and grow.

I find it amazing that people don't realise that the top politicians throughout the world, do not work for the people who elected them...the evidence is in our faces; every news broadcast; every headline.

Virtually every country in the world borrows money from privately owned central banks, who create the money as a debt. Our taxes repay the debt with interest. Currently we're paying c. £1b / week in interest. Ever hear any politicians mention this? No. There is never enough money in circulation to be able to repay the debt and interest, therefore we are forever in debt as a nation.

Henry Ford said, "if the masses ever realised how money is created, there would be a revolution by the morning".

There are some politicians who have tried to replace these central banks with government-backed central banks...here are a few of them;
JFK - murdered (he actually got as far as having new currency notes printed)
Saddam Hussein - murdered
Gaddafi - murdered
Assad - the allies are trying to murder him

See a pattern?

The EU is part of a wider plan for global governance, which is not of benefit for 99%+ of the worlds population. All the arguments for and against the EU are diversionary - while people are squabbling about the minutiae they can't be thinking about the bigger picture. What we pay to the EU is a pittance to what we're paying to a few private banking dynasties.

Voting to leave the EU is the first step to be able to tackle the bigger issues we have.

 

[spiderspider]

Isn't it strange how the established news site, are avoiding mentioning the riots going on in Calais at the moment.

Where as for the last few years, its been the lead story.

Euro tunnel closed AGAIN as migrants clash with police.

 

[signature]

Yes, as I said most of the content of this debate are opinions. Immigration numbers are not an opinion, they are fact. 333,000 per year, a city the size of Newcastle. How will they build the houses and where will they put them. The more successful our economy the more will come.
So the more pressure on schools, more pressure on the health service, more pressure on housing.

333,000 ( just to add - a city of Newcastle) could a be fact for this year but not for next year or 10 years time is it?

Also we should ask our government why is it that they cannot plan for or deal with the needs of a population growth of less than 1% per year.

How will they build houses to accommodate population growth, you simple answer is 'housing boom', not what we have now that is making profit for the builders and the only few that can afford to buy and let out.

 

[gimpydog]

Because if they make it easy then other EU countries may say we want to leave EU

 

[signature]

Hate is a very sensitive issue and I think the mayors alleged links to terrorism makes him a target. He is making allegations that all people who are anti uncontrolled immigration are somehow involved in a hate campaign. I would simply remind him that people in glass houses should not throw stones . BTW I have not seen hate so plainly displayed as his attitude to the three opposite him last night, especially the ex mayor. If the remain camp want to introduce the hate agenda which has replaced the race card then it should work both ways. That is only common sense surely.
When he said "your project was not project fear but project hate" that was an insult to all leavers.

Look at your statement 'Alleged link to terrorism', its statements like this that make people with unstable mind do silly things, this guy is an MP, all MP will be on a platform at one point in time with people they don't even know or agree with.

The same Muslim cleric was a conservative voter and Cameron had to apologist to the same Imam that Cameron accuse of supporting IS, but that is not good enough for people like you to still continue to use statement like 'alleged link to terrorism'

You continue to play with words, he did not say I hate Boris or any other leave campaign, he said to them your campaign is now a project hate, off cause you wont understand, because you are here to defend everything about leave campaign.

I watch this same debate and I don't see any of the people taken part showing hatred towards each other, off cause you might have eyes that seen beyond the obvious.

When somebody like me read comments that describe me an immigrant with all the bad words people that support leave can think off, they don't have to hate me because they don't know me but all those comment is feels like hate for immigrant.

Please if you don't understand my point about why this feels like hate, then lets agree to disagree because its totally insulting and degrading.

 

[Toonz]

Hate is a very sensitive issue and I think the mayors alleged links to terrorism makes him a target.

Are you referring to Cameron's remark about Sadiq sharing a platform with Suliman Gani who, the PM says, ‘supported Islamic State’? This nasty smear has already been thoroughly exposed as not only groundless but deliberately deceptive. Cameron typically refers to the terrorist group as 'Daesh' (indeed it was he who insisted that people use this term rather than "Islamic State"). By choosing to revert to the original term in his smear about Khan, he was deliberately exploiting the ambiguity - between the idea of "an" Islamic state with the terrorist group "Islamic State" - knowing that, while he would be found out, it didn't matter because there are enough suckers out there on whom this semantic sleight of hand would work and who wouldn't normally read intelligent news sources. It was also astoundingly hypocriticial, for reasons Signature has made clear.

He is making allegations that all people who are anti uncontrolled immigration are somehow involved in a hate campaign ... When he said "your project was not project fear but project hate" that was an insult to all leavers.

I think his point is that Boris and Govey, when pressed on the matter, might well try to disown Farage's 'Breaking Point' poster (probably more than you would do), yet they seem quite happy to harvest any votes it generates.

 

[dougs]

Point of information for you... the location flags are dynamic so reflect where you currently are not necessarily where you reside..

In US at present on summer hols...already voted