EU Referendum

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[gimpydog]

the "strain" on the NHS, Schools, etc is being used by the leave campaign as reasons to reduce immigration ... while a major reason is continual underfunding.

It is a supply & demand thing. Reduce the demand (immigration) & the existing supply will be sufficient.

Here's a thought - if immigrants are net contributors to the UK economy, why are we so skint at a time of continued record immigration?

Why hasn't immigration turned around the Greek or Italian economies?

Why are so many other EU states in such a perilous state if the EU is such a good thing? No jobs, but cheaper mobile roaming costs. Great

 

[martin-s]

Not specifically an EU issue, BUT, the "strain" on the NHS, Schools, etc is being used by the leave campaign as reasons to reduce immigration ... while a major reason is continual underfunding ... and perhaps as you say the Conservatives desire to privatise everything ...

This is a lazy response and not at all factual. The primary reason for the strain on various services is the MASSIVE increase in workload in a short space of time.

If you'd care to look back over my previous posts in this thread, I think you'll find fairly comprehensive proof.

 

[Mark84]

Haha, okay thanks, nice of you to talk for everyone.

That may be a relevant 'direct' question to you, but it's not so relevant to me, I don't believe the migrant problem is as big as the leave campaign makes out.

Just put your head in the sand then, great strategy!

 

[martin-s]

There are many reasons that we have a housing shortage ...
Allowing social housing to be bought by their tenants.
The growth in holiday homes (several councils have actually passed laws to try to stop this happening), which also has a knock on effect off-season of creating ghost towns.
Wages not going up in line with house prices.
More here:
http://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Competitive_markets/House_prices.html

Yawn. More lazy and incorrect anti-conservative vitriol.

Letting tenants buy social housing doesn't reduce the number of properties in the country, it just moves them into private ownership.

Second home ownership (where the property is not rented out to residential tenants) is a tiny tiny problem, affecting just a few very popular areas.

Wages can't go up in line with house prices if there is too much demand and not enough supply of housing. Population growth is a big driver on demand. (And wages also can't go up in line if the economy won't support it.)

 

[martin-s]

That may be a relevant 'direct' question to you, but it's not so relevant to me, I don't believe the migrant problem is as big as the leave campaign makes out.

There are two issues with immigration. The first is what has already happened because we lost control of it. The second is what might happen if we don't regain control of it.

Having control (not just on immigration, but on all sorts of things) is a good thing - and it won't happen while we are inside the EU.

 

[VSC]

It is a supply & demand thing. Reduce the demand (immigration) & the existing supply will be sufficient.

Immigration started increasing over and above what had been regarded "normal historic rates" in the late 1990's. Already by then investment in the NHS and Education had started reducing as per head of GDP.

Here's a thought - if immigrants are net contributors to the UK economy, why are we so skint at a time of continued record immigration?

err. ... who said that we were skint? GDP per head has reached pre-crash levels:
https://ig.ft.com/sites/numbers/economies/uk
Also, EU migrants contribute more than they may get back:
https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/

Why hasn't immigration turned around the Greek or Italian economies?

Why would immigration improve or not an economy?? Nothing to do with immigration.

Greek economy improving:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...s-expectations-by-moving-back-into-the-black/
Why the Italian economy if failing:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-italy-s-economy-is-about-to-collapse-a7091221.html

Why are so many other EU states in such a perilous state if the EU is such a good thing? No jobs, but cheaper mobile roaming costs. Great

EU Economy okay according to World Bank:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNP.PCAP.CD/countries/EU?display=graph

 

[martin-s]

And it definitely will if we leave?

It definitely won't if we don't!

 

[VSC]

Letting tenants buy social housing doesn't reduce the number of properties in the country, it just moves them into private ownership.

It does reduce the number of homes available for people on the lowest income. If people have the means to afford a mortgage, why not buy in the private sector in the first place?

Yawn. More lazy and incorrect anti-conservative vitriol.

Yawn - If you are so bored, why comment?
More lazy and incorrect anti-conservative vitriol - Who said that I am not a conservative voter?
Vitriol? My language has not been vitriolic. Check a dictionary. My comments are my points of view.

 

[Mark84]

And it definitely will if we leave?

Depends how people vote in the next election. If people want stronger controls then they can vote for it, if they want less controls then they can vote for it. If they don't get what they wanted, they can hold someone to account.

Democracy is a risky thing, you might not get what you want.

 

[VSC]

It definitely won't if we don't!

We don't know that - you cannot say that.
(If you can guarantee it, can I have Fridays lottery numbers please).
The UK has gained the most concessions and opt outs of any EU country I believe.
The result will be close either way.
If it is to remain, the UK government has a mighty weapon to go the EU with ... by showing the strength of feeling in the UK, perhaps threatening another referendum. The UK is not alone in the EU among countries who want change and development, and would have support.

 

[gimpydog]

It's a funding & demand thing.
Because of all the austerity cuts, look at where our Government spends money.

No it's a supply thing. If we built ten new hospitals tomorrow, we wouldn't have the staff to run them - so what's the point in building more, when we can't staff the ones we have?

Simple answer? - reduce demand.

The Greek crisis was brought on by excess government spending, current account deficits and tax avoidance, not immigration?

Yes, but my point was that we are constantly told that immigrants are making/keeping our economy buoyant, so why aren't they rejuvenating the Greek & Italian economies?

Is it because they don't value car washes, coffee shops & nail bars as much as us?

 

[martin-s]

It does reduce the number of homes available for people on the lowest income. If people have the means to afford a mortgage, why not buy in the private sector in the first place?

Because it's their home? Very simply, it's a policy that has helped encourage people on lower earnings to own their first property, which is a good thing. It also helps turn over local government property stock, which is a good way of avoiding sink estates.

Yawn - If you are so bored, why comment?

Because you post comments as if they are factual. If you aren't pulled up on the errors you make, other people might believe it.

More lazy and incorrect anti-conservative vitriol - Who said that I am not a conservative voter? Vitriol? My language has not been vitriolic. Check a dictionary. My comments are my points of view.

You're right, it wasn't vitriol. I need a thesaurus.

 

[martin-s]

Depends how people vote in the next election. If people want stronger controls then they can vote for it, if they want less controls then they can vote for it.

You cannot vote on bits of EU legislation. You can only vote in to all of it, or out. If we remain full members of the EU, uncontrollable immigration is here to stay until the rest of the EU catches up with the UK's quality of life.

 

[martin-s]

We don't know that - you cannot say that.

Get real. We've had our negotiation and got diddly-squat. The only way to regain control is by being self-governing again, or perhaps through the shock that an out vote creates among other EU members.

(If you can guarantee it, can I have Fridays lottery numbers please).

Don't be facetious

If it is to remain, the UK government has a mighty weapon to go the EU with ... by showing the strength of feeling in the UK, perhaps threatening another referendum. The UK is not alone in the EU among countries who want change and development, and would have support.

Don't be naive

If we vote to remain, the EU will have a mandate for the next 30 years to continue nibbling away at sovereignty. It's only through a vote to leave that anything will change.

 

[gimpydog]

explain to me what is “Bulldog spirit”?

I can show you what it is not...

 

[VSC]

Because it's their home? Very simply, it's a policy that has helped encourage people on lower earnings to own their first property, which is a good thing. It also helps turn over local government property stock, which is a good way of avoiding sink estates.

I choose to disagree ... and I also don't believe that the be all and end of all is owning your own property.

Because you post comments as if they are factual. If you aren't pulled up on the errors you make, other people might believe it.

As I do for your posts.

 

[VSC]

Don't be facetious

Hey, you are the one who said you know what was going to happen.
No one knows, it is all speculation according to which expert you choose to believe in.

Don't be naive
If we vote to remain, the EU will have a mandate for the next 30 years to continue nibbling away at sovereignty. It's only through a vote to leave that anything will change.

Don't be facetious

Again that is speculation. I speculate differently according to the experts that I choose to believe in.
Change is going to happen whatever the outcome.

 

[VSC]

Interesting chart showing which side our MPs plan to vote.
The majority of Conservatives, Labour, SNP, Liberal Democrat, and others to vote remain ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946

 

[martin-s]

Hey, you are the one who said you know what was going to happen.
No one knows, it is all speculation according to which expert you choose to believe in.

You see if you can find anyone else who says that we can vote remain and somehow gain control of immigration/sovereignty.

Those two things are entirely mutually exclusive.