EU Referendum

[spiderspider]

is this site actively moderated?

It used to be.

@admin @Adam H About time this was closed???? It got preachy at page 10, and at 134 is just the same rubbish being spewed back up again.

 

[martin-s]

@admin @Adam H About time this was closed????

Agreed, it's all going around in circles now - and getting more vicious with each loop.

 

[bonusmedia]

No-one has to read it. I do agree the insults should stop

 

[Edwin]

It's a fantastic thread. Very interesting.

But the point about tone is well made. There are ways to debate without making it personal, as most but sadly not all contributors have demonstrated.

 

[boxfish]

It used to be.

@admin @Adam H About time this was closed???? It got preachy at page 10, and at 134 is just the same rubbish being spewed back up again.

It's the only thread with any activity though - ad clicks need to come from somewhere if none of you lot are buying membership ;-)

 

[websaway]

I suppose parliament could decide not to defend a Nato ally, but we would be breaking the terms of the treaty.

If that's your definition of retaining sovereignty, we've already got it - parliament could decide to just break our EU treaties. Of course it would be the end of us as an economic, military and cultural power and we'd be the laughing stock of the world.

Yes OK then.

 

[websaway]

You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
I'm sorry if I've been personal with anyone, never the intention to offend but I may have done.
I don't mind anyone being personal with me , go to it.
One can't get involved in debate and be too sensitive.

 

[denchomsky]

Who do you think pays the price for all this?

Using the figures in your scenario, anything imported from the EU would cost consumers +10% from the forex differential, and another +10% from tariffs. Inflation would sky-rocket! And that would necessitate much higher interest rates, leading to a wave of foreclosures because people couldn't keep up with their mortgage repayments any more.

House prices would potentially fall, this would of course not help the people that have opted to take out massive mortgages to buy houses that they can't afford, (lenders to advise to factor in a 3% or so interest rate rise before you borrow) but it might help those trying to get on the property ladder, so there would be winners and losers.

Also 'if' net immigration was to fall following a brexit then theoretically there would be less demand, reducing house prices meaning that people do not have to take out massive mortgages that they cannot afford.

 

[websaway]

It's a fantastic thread. Very interesting.

But the point about tone is well made. There are ways to debate without making it personal, as most but sadly not all contributors have demonstrated.

Edwin, your put downs are eloquently constructed but can also be very offensive, if picked up. It's an art you've mastered.

 

[Adam H]

It used to be.

@admin @Adam H About time this was closed???? It got preachy at page 10, and at 134 is just the same rubbish being spewed back up again.

It's not for me to decide bud. I deal with minor stuff like spam if admin isnt around to help out but im not officially a moderator to make a decision to close a real debate. I'm sure admin will be along shortly, I know he's on holiday at the moment so probably only checks on things in the evening.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Well I haven't got precise figures for every single thing it's possible to make, sorry. But I can tell you that we can't produce a lot of goods anywhere near as cheaply somewhere like India - because we don't pay people $2 per day.

EDIT - bad example obviously, but the same holds true for plenty of EU goods

Some East European countries within the EU pay hourly rates that are a fraction of what we pay by law....but we have to accept their goods. This is an example of why the EU is failing.

 

[websaway]

I think when things get slightly out of hand is when people gang up on one person, I personally don't mind but others might get hurt and it's something I try to avoid.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I wonder if that will be the Government's last roll of the dice next week, if the polls are still moving in the wrong direction... Actually stand up in parliament and say "You know what, folks: the reason you're feeling the pinch is because of OUR policies" (i.e. tell the truth).

If Cameron and Osborne figure to be out of a job by Friday anyway, and they believe in the UK passionately enough, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they make an admission along those lines. Osborne pretty much admitted today that the "example" emergency budget he put forward was a career-damaging move. Hats off to him for putting his beliefs on the EU ahead of personal ambition (and I say that as someone who doesn't vote Conservative).

They'll have to do whatever they're told by their bosses (that isn't us by the way)....they're only puppets.

 

[websaway]

I'm thinking cactus...

Tone or insult ?

 

[bonusmedia]

Some East European countries within the EU pay hourly rates that are a fraction of what we pay by law....but we have to accept their goods. This is an example of why the EU is failing.

Actually I think this is an example of what the EU is good at - by requiring those countries to give their workers the same rights, they at least limit their ability to undercut us. (As well as massively improving quality of life for millions of workers...) There is always going to be some inequality and actually if we want cheap goods we need cheap labour - at least for now...

 

[BREWSTERS]

Actually I think this is an example of what the EU is good at - by requiring those countries to give their workers the same rights, they at least limit their ability to undercut us. (As well as massively improving quality of life for millions of workers...) There is always going to be some inequality and actually if we want cheap goods we need cheap labour - at least for now...

I'm pretty certain that rights aren't implemented the same...and that they can and do undercut us across a lot of products, especially agricultural. This is why CAP exists and UK farmers are getting paid to not farm. How can that be an efficient market?

 

[bonusmedia]

House prices would potentially fall, this would of course not help the people that have opted to take out massive mortgages to buy houses that they can't afford, (lenders to advise to factor in a 3% or so interest rate rise before you borrow) but it might help those trying to get on the property ladder, so there would be winners and losers.

Also 'if' net immigration was to fall following a brexit then theoretically there would be less demand, reducing house prices meaning that people do not have to take out massive mortgages that they cannot afford.

I would certainly like to see house prices fall and become more accessible, I think we benefit from being a nation of homeowners and people should be able to reasonably aspire to owning property.

However I think the way to get there is to increase supply, not cut demand. The market is failing - largely because of scarcity of land - which is exactly when Government should step in.

Let's have a construction boom

 

[bonusmedia]

I'm pretty certain that rights aren't implemented the same...and that they can and do undercut us across a lot of products, especially agricultural. This is why CAP exists and UK farmers are getting paid to not farm. How can that be an efficient market?

They may break the rules, but at least the rules are there. Certainly they can undercut us because pay rates are lower. Would you rather pay twice the price* for British goods? If enough people do that then we could sustain all our own industries - but realistically most won't, or can't.

CAP paying farmers not to farm - part of the reason for this is to retain farming capacity - if it becomes uneconomical to run farms without subsidy then we lose farms, and we lose 'food security' - i.e. the ability to adapt to a changing world, and restart farming if needed. Another issue is managing gluts and oversupplies in the market which damage prices (butter mountains, wine lakes etc). It's certainly not an efficient market - but sometimes the most efficient market is not the best thing.

There are huge problems with the CAP and it desperately needs reform, but if we leave it will still affect us and we can't do much about it.

*not an exact figure

 

[denchomsky]

I would certainly like to see house prices fall and become more accessible, I think we benefit from being a nation of homeowners and people should be able to reasonably aspire to owning property.

However I think the way to get there is to increase supply, not cut demand. The market is failing - largely because of scarcity of land - which is exactly when Government should step in.

Let's have a construction boom

Or maybe we shouldn't be selling most new properties (in London especially) 'off plan' to foreign investors that will never live in them and don't even rent them out a lot of the time.

 

[bonusmedia]

Or maybe we shouldn't be selling most new properties (in London especially) 'off plan' to foreign investors that will never live in them and don't even rent them out a lot of the time.

Agreed. This could be resolved fairly easily with higher taxes for foreign (non-resident) ownership and for empty properties - and there are at least some moves in that direction - too little too late but maybe we'll get there