I'm beginning to think that everybody on the remain side are pessimists.
Nice try, but all politicians know that pensioners vote & students just protest.
Policy follows the votes, not the volume
Nice try, but all politicians know that pensioners vote & students just protest.
Policy follows the votes, not the volume
& students just protest.
Talk about scaremongering, here's Leave.eu's latest poster...
Wrong, on so many levels! Regardless of whether you're "remain", "leave" or still "undecided", I hope we can at least agree on that.
How much immigration is "enough"?
The Leave camp have been reaching out to those of Commonwealth descent by suggesting that post-brexit there could be room for more non-EU immigration because EU immigration will be limited. However, last year, there were already over 180,000 non-EU migrants.
So how can Leave promote more non-EU immigration (i.e. by definition, that figure of 180,000/year will go up) while simultaneously attacking Remain/the Tory party for not getting immigration down into the tens of thousands?
Those are two completely irreconcilable and contradictory positions, like saying "We're going to let you drive 150Mph rather than 130Mph, and how dare the Government not drop the speed limit to 50Mph!"
(Andrew Neil tried to tackle Nigel Farage on the above in his interview the other day, but N.F. huffed and puffed for about five minutes without actually saying anything until A.N. was forced to move onto another topic)
You can not set a target on immigration until we leave the EU .
But if you have any concern about numbers then you will know that if we stay in, those numbers are going to be unknown and the people who come in will be unknown also, and it could easily be 500,000 per year. So calculating numbers will be as inaccurate as your projections on the effect on the economy.
The better off the country gets the more people come, the better the government treats it's citizens the more people come. The more houses we build , the more jobs we create , the more schools we build, the more hospitals we built, the more people will come. It's a total drain on resources and the road to ruin.
Way I see it, everything will carry on as it is. Look at Norway, Austria, Turkey, all major trading partners with the EU,
While Norway & Turkey are not members of the EU they are members of the EEA which has to agree to the four freedoms, i.e. the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital, as well as competition and state aid rules, among others ...
So not really a good comparison as one of the main issues that "leave" want is to restrict free movement.
Agreed. So far nobody in the Leave camp (that I've seen) has acknowledged that the alternative models being pushed such as the Norway or Switzerland models also require the free movement of people as an absolute precondition.
How much immigration is "enough"?
The Leave camp have been reaching out to those of Commonwealth descent by suggesting that post-brexit there could be room for more non-EU immigration because EU immigration will be limited. However, last year, there were already over 180,000 non-EU migrants.
So how can Leave promote more non-EU immigration (i.e. by definition, that figure of 180,000/year will go up) while simultaneously attacking Remain/the Tory party for not getting immigration down into the tens of thousands?
Those are two completely irreconcilable and contradictory positions, like saying "We're going to let you drive 150Mph rather than 130Mph, and how dare the Government not drop the speed limit to 50Mph!"
(Andrew Neil tried to tackle Nigel Farage on the above in his interview the other day, but N.F. huffed and puffed for about five minutes without actually saying anything until A.N. was forced to move onto another topic)
Agreed. So far nobody in the Leave camp (that I've seen) has acknowledged that the alternative models being pushed such as the Norway or Switzerland models also require the free movement of people as an absolute precondition. There are no existing models in use by any country that protect both the type of trade deals that EU countries, Switzerland and Norway enjoy yet also allow an opt-out from the free movement condition.
And the rest of the EU would be shooting itself very vigorously in the foot if it allowed the first ever exception to be the UK (for whatever pipe-dreamy reason you armwave into existence) since there are plenty of other EU countries that would quite fancy the cake (great trade deals) without the unappetising heap of boiled cabbage (free movement of people) that goes with it, and they'd be queueing up to leave...
This is why I'm convinced that Cameron will (sensibly and logically) quit very, very quickly if the vote goes the "Leave" way. His position will be like that of an airline pilot being required to keep the aeroplane in the sky after random components and bits of wing have been knocked off. History will remember him unkindly for having called such a foolish referendum, so why would he want to compound the humiliation by presiding over the fall-out too?
So how can Leave promote more non-EU immigration (i.e. by definition, that figure of 180,000/year will go up) while simultaneously attacking Remain/the Tory party for not getting immigration down into the tens of thousands?
Your defeatist attitude does not hold much water with adults, I do though think it will work on younger people who of course, without experience, will be more receptive to scare tactics about, for them anyway, the unknown.
Actually I think it is the reverse ... the "younger people" have a more idealistic view of the future, they have hope, and the hope may be that people united can achieve more than people divided ... similar to the thoughts when the "project" was conceived and started.
May be unrealistic to many, may be unrealistic in fact ... I personally hope they can prove us old fogeys all wrong and succeed where some of us failed and see in a future that is more about compassion and sharing rather than division and fear.
At the end of the day we will all make up our own mind about remain or leave.
We will all choose to interpret the "facts" as we want to, to match our pre-conceived values and ideals.
There are a large group of people who are undecided ... and very confused by the mis-represented statistics and statements by both sides - since when has politics professed to be all things to all people.
BUT, just because someone has a valid (to their opinion) and different point of view to you, don't start demeaning your own point of view with petty statements about not being an adult ... it's not very adult.
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