Elon Musk is THE man

[dee]

How about this - it's only a 1m clip. Does this sound reasonable to you? Since Apollo, man has never been more than 400 miles from the earth...because we can't / don't know how? Is that logical to you? Do you know of any other area where man has gone drastically backwards?

I don't think were not capable of it. But who's going to pay to head back to the moon for no good reason. Tax payers wouldnt want to thats for sure unless there was a significant gain. Modern low earth orbit craft like the shuttle arent capable of going to the moon. They dont have the power if anything else. The propulsion systems needed to push on from low earth orbit haven't been around since the Saturn V , but only because there's no need for them.

Not sure whats happening since constellation project got cancelled but think Orion and the Ares I are still under development to carry a crew beyond low earth orbit. Again though, it's all about cost. Think developent was already up to about 40 billion.

EDIT.... just searched.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/03/...ry-exploration-get-big-boosts-in-nasa-budget/

NASA’s behind-schedule Space Launch System, a multibillion-dollar rocket that has been a cornerstone of the agency’s human spaceflight program since 2011, will receive $2.15 billion in the fiscal 2018 budget. The Orion crew capsule, which will launch on top of the SLS, will get $1.35 billion.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I don't think were not capable of it. But who's going to pay to head back to the moon for no good reason. Tax payers wouldnt want to thats for sure unless there was a significant gain. Modern low earth orbit craft like the shuttle arent capable of going to the moon. They dont have the power if anything else. The propulsion systems needed to push on from low earth orbit haven't been around since the Saturn V , but only because there's no need for them.

Not sure whats happening since constellation project got cancelled but think Orion and the Ares I are still under development to carry a crew beyond low earth orbit. Again though, it's all about cost. Think developent was already up to about 40 billion.

EDIT.... just searched.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/03/...ry-exploration-get-big-boosts-in-nasa-budget/

That's Don Petitt an astronaut (?) and spokesman for NASA...he's saying we can't. But you think we can. Here's a NASA engineer on a NASA video saying the same thing. Unfortunately this guy has been killed since this was made. But, you think we can.
The Apollo mission was supposedly taken from an idea to landing people on the moon within 10 years. Car makers take that to develop their next generation of vehicle...two years just for an update with new bumpers and lights.
US taxpayers seem happy enough sending Tesla cars (where do you think SpaceX gets funded) into space and buggies to Mars for no good reason - if there are any...what are they please?

 

[ian]

That's Don Petitt an astronaut (?) and spokesman for NASA...he's saying we can't. But you think we can. Here's a NASA engineer on a NASA video saying the same thing. Unfortunately this guy has been killed since this was made. But, you think we can.
The Apollo mission was supposedly taken from an idea to landing people on the moon within 10 years. Car makers take that to develop their next generation of vehicle...two years just for an update with new bumpers and lights.
US taxpayers seem happy enough sending Tesla cars (where do you think SpaceX gets funded) into space and buggies to Mars for no good reason - if there are any...what are they please?

Where does he say that they can't? He says that they don't have the technology anymore. That merely implies that if they wanted to (again), they'd have to start the technical process (again).
You realise that sending a Tesla in to orbit wasn't the purpose of the mission, right?

Having said all that, no point anyone debating it with you, because you firmly believe it didn't even happen!

 

[dee]

That's Don Petitt an astronaut (?) and spokesman for NASA...he's saying we can't. But you think we can. Here's a NASA engineer on a NASA video saying the same thing. Unfortunately this guy has been killed since this was made. But, you think we can.

I'm certainly saying were capable of building a craft to get to the moon yes. We've already done it, so not sure what you're saying ? Not trying to be obtuse honestly. Now not sure I get your original point.

We could build ship to go to the moon, but it would cost a fortune, its dangerous and there's no real need to go back so appetite isnt really there other than as a potential stepping stone to further afield. Our space exploration future rests in going further out long term (mars initially ) seeing as we're in the process of trashing this planet. We'll need somewhere else to screw as a species.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Where does he say that they can't? He says that they don't have the technology anymore. That merely implies that if they wanted to (again), they'd have to start the technical process (again).

That's really clutching at straws...if you don't have the technology required, then you can't can you. Which begs the questions why and how was it destroyed? Who has been brought to book for destroying what was claimed to be man's greatest ever achievement? It doesn't make sense, unless you realise that it never happened in the first place.

You realise that sending a Tesla in to orbit wasn't the purpose of the mission, right?

Duh, yeah.

Having said all that, no point anyone debating it with you, because you firmly believe it didn't even happen!

That seems to be the general get out clause for not debating things. I feel that actually it's more a case that believers don't want their beliefs challenged. So they protect their source of information. Only when your mind becomes open does that stop...you stop protecting the source. What do you owe NASA, SpaceX, governments? Nothing.

 

[dee]

That seems to be the general get out clause for not debating things. I feel that actually it's more a case that believers don't want their beliefs challenged. So they protect their source of information. Only when your mind becomes open does that stop...you stop protecting the source. What do you owe NASA, SpaceX, governments? Nothing.

Agreed. Dont owe them a thing. BUT . Why ? Whats the point in faking it ?

I've stood next to the capsules, rocket stages etc in places like udvar hazy. I also have a small background in military aviation and have felt the power of relatively small jet engines. The technology absoloutley exists. They could build one big enough absoloutely. If nothing else, the sheer number of people required to have "been in on it" is mind boggling. I think the chances of them getting away with faking it are less likely than the fact that they actually did it.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I'm certainly saying were capable of building a craft to get to the moon yes. We've already done it, so not sure what you're saying ? Not trying to be obtuse honestly. Now not sure I get your original point.

My point is, that we've never been to the moon. The story has more holes than a sieve.

We could build ship to go to the moon, but it would cost a fortune, its dangerous and there's no real need to go back so appetite isnt really there other than as a potential stepping stone to further afield. Our space exploration future rests in going further out long term (mars initially ) seeing as we're in the process of trashing this planet. We'll need somewhere else to screw as a species.

Space as described is such a hostile environment. There are areas of the earth that we can't populate because they're 30 or 40 degrees centigrade too hot or too cold. There are vast areas of the ocean that we know nothing about. Yet they want us to believe we can set up shop on other planets, that don't have the protective layer of atmosphere that we do. It doesn't make sense.

Not trying to be obtuse honestly

It's ok, not taken that way - you always come across as polite in your writing as most do on here. I hope I do too as I don't mean to upset anyone.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Agreed. Dont owe them a thing. BUT . Why ? Whats the point in faking it ?

Originally faked for prestige - JFK said the American goal was to put a man ion the moon and return him safely within a decade...to beat the Russians. From then, NASA's annual budget is upwards of $20 billion...$55m a day. You want a motive...that's a pretty big one.

I've stood next to the capsules, rocket stages etc in places like udvar hazy. I also have a small background in military aviation and have felt the power of relatively small jet engines. The technology absoloutley exists. They could build one big enough absoloutely. If nothing else, the sheer number of people required to have "been in on it" is mind boggling. I think the chances of them getting away with faking it are less likely than the fact that they actually did it.

Compartmentalisation - when you see a hundred people in a room staring at a screen monitoring something...do they know what everyone else is doing? Does the guy whose getting paid to monitor the temperature of the flux valve (made that up) know if that reading is actually coming from a flux valve on a ship in space, or from a warehouse down the road? There's a good chance no-one in that room really knows what's going on. Have you ever seen the Mars Curiosity rover press conference? They guys who supposedly made it happen...they can't answer any questions.

 

[RobM]

I wouldn't bother if I were you Dee. You cannot have an intellectual logical argument because there is far too much evidence of it having happened. These people are the equivalent of flat earthers, just nod politely and walk past them. By trying to reason with them you are only giving their silly beliefs credibility that they are worth arguing against. Might as well try and argue the point that water is wet with people who think you're just being deceived. It takes a few minutes to pull all their arguments to pieces (as has been done many times) and yet *still* they remain convinced. I wouldn't argue science with a 3 year old why would I waste my time with someone with the intellectual knowledge of a 3 year old? People who don't even know what a theory is.

 

[Edwin]

Back on the actual topic, SpaceX has had 2 successful launches in 4 days. And one of the interesting things piggybacking on the latest launch is a "space harpoon" to catch orbiting debris.
https://www.cnet.com/news/spacex-elon-musk-launching-science-experiments-to-iss-on-falcon-9/

They're apparently planning to step up their launch program massively. Not surprising, when you consider they've got several thousand satellites that have to be launched in the next few years.
https://www.techradar.com/news/spac...llites-for-total-worldwide-broadband-coverage

 

[RobM]

Whatever happens in the future or anyone's financial situation the fact remains that Elon launched a car into space and had his rockets land again. That is something that is not only groundbreaking but also historical which is what my original post was about - he is THE man. Facts cannot be ignored.

 

[Edwin]

Whatever happens in the future or anyone's financial situation the fact remains that Elon launched a car into space and had his rockets land again. That is something that is not only groundbreaking but also historical which is what my original post was about - he is THE man. Facts cannot be ignored.

I don't think anyone rational is ignoring them, Rob...

And yes, he is THE man. Private rockets, Hyperloop, cheap tunnels, solar roofs, battery farms... the list goes on and on.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Arguing? Who’s arguing? I’m certainly not, it doesn’t matter to me whether you believe what I believe, and even less what your opinion of me is. Not for any derogatory reason but because it doesn’t affect me in any material way.

It’s nice believing everything that mainstream puts out there...comforting thinking that even if you’re wrong, you’re in the majority. And if anyone challenges your beliefs you can bat them away by pulling the ‘conspiracy theory’ card (guess who and why that phrase was coined), and you don’t need to do anything else. Once you say those two words you’re free to pretend that anything you’ve said is a fact and can state things as such.

I have a brother, who is very successful in business; owns his own PLC, multiple homes, had all the cars and luxury yachts, etc. We’ve had discussions, during which I’ve told him my thoughts, and from that he’s done his own research. To say he doesn’t move a muscle before considering every consequence would be to understate how anal he can be.
I work for him as a logistics manager. One of his mantra’s is “good news will keep, but bad news I need to know straight away”. After doing his own research (into what some would call conspiracy theories) for a few weeks, he stopped. He couldn’t handle it. He knew that his world was being tipped upside down and said so. His words were along the lines of “I can see it, and it scares me (did I mention he’s a 6’3 ex rugby player who shows multiple tendencies of a psychopath?) and I don’t want to know any more”. He frets over me,thinking I’m burdened by the truth. But I’m not. Just the opposite - to me it’s freeing. But then I don’t have the trappings of wealth. I have comparatively very little to lose, and it is apparent to me that people’s beliefs and their financial well-being are linked. As though if they stopped believing in the system that provided the chattels, then the chattels will be taken away.

Language isn’t considered enough. People bandy about words like ‘fact’ when what they are talking about is just the majority concencus. If the majority were right, there would be no problems in the western world would there? It can be annoying when they state something they repeated is fact...not because it stands upto scrutiny, but because it’s from the source they trust (to back up their beliefs).

No-one should accept anything that anyone says (including me) without considering the opposite in depth.

Anyway, I’m not here to try and convince anyone of anything...I can’t, only the person can do that. Someone tried subtly to show me for years and years, and I batted away their ‘theories’ with what I thought were facts. Then dots started to connect. And like a picture puzzle that you’ve been staring at for ages suddenly becomes apparent, and from that point on, you can see the whole picture.

Back to the topic...I think Elon Musk is a fraud. He’s in the pocket of the US government (or more accurately those who control it) who are propping up Tesla Motors and saving him from bankruptcy. Billions or nothing. What would most people choose? Read the script Elon.

 

[Edwin]

It doesn’t matter what anyone believes privately, but it is genuinely frustrating to have a thread about all the cool stuff Elon Musk is up to derailed by conspiracy theories.

It’s like a butcher butting into a chat that’s very clearly between vegetarians and going on and on about how steaks are delicious, the bloodier the better.

All it does is get in the way of the nice optimistic conversation everyone else is trying to have about Elon Musk, the future etc.

No wonder tempers are fraying!

If you want to talk conspiracies, why not start your own thread? That way you can chat with like-minded people and the rest of us can easily ignore it. Result: smiles all round...

 

[RobM]

It's not derailed Edwin. Idiots cannot change facts. It will only get derailed if people humour him enough to attempt to respond to his stupidity. Thankfully they are as easily ignored on the forum as in real life.

 

[Edwin]

It's not derailed Edwin. Idiots cannot change facts. It will only get derailed if people humour him enough to attempt to respond to his stupidity. Thankfully they are as easily ignored on the forum as in real life.

It does in the sense that after a while some people may abandon this thread or ignore it who otherwise would have kept an eye on it. Anyway, I've said my tuppence on the matter.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is close to unveiling the "finished" version of the Falcon 9, which they intend to reuse over a hundred times. That's apparently why they ditched the last few rockets rather than bothered catching them again: not that they couldn't, but because they were already obsolete.
https://www.cnet.com/news/spacex-block-5-falcon-9-rocket-hopes-to-reuse-100-times/

 

[ian]

I'm done debating this now, but all I will say is if Brewsters doesn't believe the 'moon landing' actually happened, how else can he explain the fine array of cheeses in the supermarkets?

 

[BREWSTERS]

Ok, I won't post any more to this thread. I don't want to upset anyone by saying something they don't want to hear.

Maybe future threads can have a warning to denote that they are a non free speech zone as contrary opinions really do hurt...you know, like sticks and stones used to.

Good luck with the Ministry of Information.

 

[Edwin]

Has anyone heard of the new Tesla Semi trucks? They are all electric (of course) and can do up to 650 miles between charges with the extended range option, which is more than a single driver can legally do in a day based on their hours and the max speed of a truck.

The other nice thing about them is they accelerate far faster than ordinary trucks, so they should find it easier to merge with motorway traffic without causing a queue of cars to have to brake or change lanes.

They’re still a “beta” product, but there are various videos on Youtube of them in the wild, so it’s not just a paper idea. UPS and Fedex have already put in advance orders.

I would have thought in future they’ll be prime candidates for automation. Room for gigantic amounts of sensors and computing capacity, with effectively no weight or power restrictions, so should be much easier to automate than a car.

 

[wonder_lander]

Is it just the tractor unit that can do the 650 miles, I would guess dependent on trailer load that would affect the actual range?