123REG Taking Liberties with your .uk domain registration rights

[Whois-Search]

Register.uk was developed following the introduction of the very Nominet promotion that is now being exploited by the large registrars on their existing customers.

The promotion was first emailed to us by Nominet in April:

From: Nominet <[email protected]>
Date: 21 April 2017 at 08:11:35 BST
Subject: Right of Registration Promotion

No where in that email did it say that registrars have the right to register the names on behalf of their customers (without them agreeing to it).

So we implemented the promotion based on the information provided in that email. I also had to acquire the domain name and develop the site (so yes I did spend marketing money relative to the size of my registrar).

It wasn’t until August - September 2017 that the companies that your fellow NED directors work for introduced the .uk opt-out:

http://blog.freeparking.com/blog/the-great-uk-domain-name-give-away/

https://blog.names.co.uk/2017/09/rights-owners-can-claim-free-uk/

And then it wasn’t until the promotion was extended by Nominet again:

From: Nominet<[email protected]>
Date: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:37 PM
Subject: Extending the Right of Registration promotion

Did 123-reg then join them in late September:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/...outraged_at_automatic_uk_domain_registration/

So the “free” .uk goal posts have moved within the past month alone. Prior to that I was relying on undercutting the competition at £4.99

As for DUM I’m sure you can look that up on our Nominet voting rights. Though I imagine the .uk statistics presented to you on your iPad at board meetings only contain the figures of your key partners

 

[RobM]

"This looks like a cynical attempt to both raise the rate of registration, and make money from the inevitable raft of auto-renewals from those who don’t realise this is happening,"

Well who'd possibly have thought that...? I'm sure invincible and 123reg can come back here with more bullshit that they think we're stupid enough to swallow.

 

[ian]

It's my understanding that 123-REG have conducted their own research, and following customer feedback, contacted all the rights holders for qualifying domain names under their management. They were offering a two-year free registration of any domain names that currently had rights. In their communications, there was an option for customers to opt out of taking advantage of this offer. I appreciate that you might not have been involved in their market research.

So, has any 123Reg customer actually seen this email communication that stated they would exercise ROR's on behalf of their customers? Seems Nominet were aware of it, but were their customers?

It isn't so much 123Reg's tactic of taking ROR away from their customers, but more so that they've likely added 'auto-renew' to the domain and identity protection. What you have to consider is that with ROR, if you didn't decide to register, the domain would be lost, so why have 123Reg added 'auto-renewal'...simply because it is in their best interest to do so. Obviously I don't know if that is the case, but I imagine it is.

I've seen a few mention 'drop catchers' in this conversation. That actually didn't occur to me, .uk's will be available first come first serve regardless, it is more about 123Reg's practise here, but we should hardly be surprised.

This is a special interest community, in my opinion Here the vast majority want it all for as little as possible. Many here likely want the .co.uk with the RoR in tact so they don’t have to pay for it while they hold it in the hope of flipping it again. In less than two years that option will have likely passed us all by..

You can act all high and mighty David, but don't you own one of the best portfolio of domains that sit doing nothing waiting for buyers, most of which still have ROR intact! Just saying

 

[RobM]

All they have to do to prove they are not trying to stiff their clients is to register the domains with auto-renew off. That's it. Not hard. Until that happens we have to assume they are in it for money and anyone supporting them is either stupid not to to realise or dishonest trying to convince us that's not the case. Which one are you David? Stupid or dishonest?

 

[martin-s]

Does this graph explain why it's being allowed to happen?

 

[Edwin]

123-Reg should move them immediate to proper privacy (inside the privacy framework) with the rightful ultimate owners’ details stored with Nominet. That’s the first step. At least that would restore the correct ownership rather than some kind of back door fiddle that’s reliant purely on 123-Reg’s databases and good will, which could change any time at the whim of their policy team. Because as things stand, 123-Reg legally own the millions of .uk domains, NOT their clients. And as has been discussed, that’s tantamount to theft.

(With the correct privacy in place, it should be a simple task for the domains to be moved to other registrars if desired.)

After that, switch auto renew off across the board, and let all that are not ultimately renewed drop.

Do all the above and it’s still a very cheeky overreach, but at least malicious intent will have been thwarted.

 

[Edwin]

I don’t think this thread is anywhere near running its course. We have a legitimate 123-Reg rep participating, so there’s no reason we can’t ultimately expect satisfactory answers and full transparency if there’s nothing to hide.

But you’re half right, David, in that it doesn’t look like your contributions will ever move things forward. Your position in Nominet’s pocket is so transparent that it’s a waste of everyone’s time to parse your straw man objections.

 

[anthony]

It isn't just 123-Reg though, others have adopted the same pattern, and on clearly generic domain names not generally associated with registrants of the domaining fraternity, meaning 'wet-behind-the-ears' registrants who are less likely to know or understand the implications for themselves of what is happening!

 

[Edwin]

It isn't just 123-Reg though, others have adopted the same pattern, and on clearly generic domain names not generally associated with registrants of the domaining fraternity, meaning 'wet-behind-the-ears' registrants who are less likely to know or understand the implications for themselves of what is happening!

When the group that has 50% of the end user market buries its snout tail-deep in the trough, it is sadly unsurprising that others choose to follow.

BTW we should keep sight of the dangerous new precedent being set, namely that Nominet will allow all sorts of naughty shenanigans to be inflicted on domain owners on an opt-out basis.

In other words, instead of needing explicit permission before doing something, you now just need implicit agreement (ie “not a ‘no’”) - customers have to pro-actively stop their rights being savagely eroded.

Now that this principle has been demonstrated, all bets are off. We can and should expect any and all devious tactics going forward, indulgently nodded through by Nominet like a doting parent.

 

[anthony]

When the group that has 50% of the end user market buries its snout tail-deep in the trough, it is sadly unsurprising that others choose to follow.

BTW we should keep sight of the dangerous new precedent being set, namely that Nominet will allow all sorts of naughty shenanigans to be inflicted on domain owners on an opt-out basis.

In other words, instead of needing explicit permission before doing something, you now just need implicit agreement (ie “not a ‘no’”) - customers have to pro-actively stop their rights being savagely eroded.

Now that this principle has been demonstrated, all bets are off. We can and should expect any and all devious tactics going forward, indulgently nodded through by Nominet like a doting parent.

Opt In = good business practice
Opt Out = bad business practice

 

[Edwin]

Opt In = good business practice
Opt Out = bad business practice

A lesson the email marketing world took a long time to learn, but respectable players have now wholeheartedly adopted best practices.

Makes the UK namespace look retrograde.

 

[fuzzer]

So, all these .UKs had to of first been registered with the corresponding .co.uk details (even for a nanosecond) as Invincible suggested - and then they were changed to Identity Protect Ltd. If this is now apparently ok practice, what's to stop them changing the details of any .co.uk over to Identity Protect Ltd, say a .co.uk that has just passed it's expiry date and requires renewal??

 

[Edwin]

So, all these .UKs had to of first been registered with the corresponding .co.uk details (even for a nanosecond) as Invincible suggested - and then they were changed to Identity Protect Ltd. If this is now apparently ok practice, what's to stop them changing the details of any .co.uk over to Identity Protect Ltd, say a .co.uk that has just passed it's expiry date and requires renewal??

Nothing whatsoever.

And just because a company isn’t doing something at breakfast, doesn’t mean they can’t change their tone by tea time since the checks and balances have been swept away.

 

[Edwin]

Worth noting that there used to be an explicit connection between growth in the UK namespace and Nominet executive bonuses.

(I don’t know if it’s still the case, but it WAS the case.)

And Nominet are counting free registrations as equivalent to paid-for ones when it comes to voting rights. So they may be treating them as equivalent for other measures too.

 

[martin-s]

I guess one advantage of Nominet publishing the zone files is that third parties have a bit more visibility to police this sort of thing.

 

[Nigel]

123-Reg should move them immediate to proper privacy (inside the privacy framework) with the rightful ultimate owners’ details stored with Nominet. That’s the first step. At least that would restore the correct ownership rather than some kind of back door fiddle that’s reliant purely on 123-Reg’s databases and good will, which could change any time at the whim of their policy team. Because as things stand, 123-Reg legally own the millions of .uk domains, NOT their clients. And as has been discussed, that’s tantamount to theft.

(With the correct privacy in place, it should be a simple task for the domains to be moved to other registrars if desired.)

After that, switch auto renew off across the board, and let all that are not ultimately renewed drop.

Do all the above and it’s still a very cheeky overreach, but at least malicious intent will have been thwarted.

I think all 123-registrants also deserve the promise that 123-reg won't ever seek to monetise these domains i.e. by placing ads on a landing page or use them to promote 123-reg in any way.

Even if 123-reg agreed to all these demands - is it beneficial to a .co.uk business customer to have a whois record on the corresponding .uk showing Identity Protect Ltd? Many people might think you don't own the .uk or perhaps are trying to hide your identity. And why would you want to do that if your .co.uk domain has your company's full details listed. The man from 123-reg might say - our client's can log in and remove privacy if they want. But he knows most will either not know about that, or are too busy to do that - and a lot will think why should I have to go and do that. I also imagine a lot of people will visit Companies House Beta to take a good look at who exactly Identity Protect Ltd are.

 

[mibut]

I have been gradually moving domains from 123-reg, normally near to renewal time, but still have about 35 names there.
Last week on the 13th i received 5 forwarded emails originally from nominet but forwarded from [email protected]. example below.
Dear Identity Protection Service

Congratulations!

The following .uk domain names are registered for you:

xxxxxxl.uk

Welcome to .uk

A .uk domain name tells your customers, visitors or supporters that you
believe in a safe and trusted online experience, whether you are developing a
business, running a charitable organisation or writing a blog online.

The domain name provider that manages your domain name should be your first
point of contact for any queries you may have.

Your registrar details are:

Registrar:
123-reg
www.123-reg.co.uk
0345 450 2310


Domain names registered with this provider:
xxxxxx.uk


Nominet is the internet registry for all .uk domain names and operates the
national infrastructure that helps make the UK internet work. For more
information about Nominet please visit our website at www.nominet.uk.

You now have access to an online account with Nominet that you can use to
manage some other services associated with your .uk domain names (for example
to transfer your domain name or check your registration details).

Please follow the link below to access your online account and confirm that
your contact details are correct:

https://secure.nominet.uk/auth/login.html

For online tips and advice and to discover why .uk is such a great place to
be, please visit www.agreatplacetobe.co.uk and follow us on twitter @dotuk.

Out on its own for the first time, the new .uk domain is now available to register.

This means that shorter, smarter "example.uk" domain names will be
available alongside "example.co.uk", "example.org.uk" and so on.

For more information and to check your right to register, please go to
www.dotuklaunch.co.uk

As far as i can see i cannot access them at nominet, i also cannot access the names at 123-reg. I have not been asked , by email or otherwise, if iwant to register these domains.
Images re what it says in control panel at 123-reg.
Surely as these were registered on the 13th, whether i wanted them or not, i should now be able to decide what i want to do with them.

 

[Whois-Search]

David asked if I've read the Nominet Registrar Agreement...
Well he knows as well as I do that is a red herring by their legal team.

The actual policy and terms preventing this activity is written in the following places:

1. The Terms & Conditions of Domain Name Registration section 6.1.1
https://www.nominet.uk/resources/policy/policies-rules/

2. The .UK and Data Quality Process Charts chart 3b.
http://registrars.nominet.uk/sites/default/files/registrarprocessmaps-v14.pdf

Now since 123-reg must have used the registrant data to register the .uk

Then I can't see the problem in them activating the new whois privacy framework:
http://registrars.nominet.uk/namespace/uk/privacy-service-framework

However their current whois privacy method (Identity Protect Ltd) is still accepted by Nominet.

Even though the Accredited Channel Partner clause is still not clear on it:

E.3.1. The ability to make changes to the registrant name as specified in this Contract (subject to the Rules) without changing the identity of the Registrant (for example to correct a mistake or reflect a change of legal name). This ability must not be used to effect a transfer of a domain name to a different Registrant, which must be done using our domain transfer tool – see paragraph E.3.2. below;

Identity Protect Ltd was originally the whois privacy company operated by Domain Monster / Domainbox. When that company was acquired by Host Europe the directors changed.

You can see the history of the officers on the Companies House website:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07407280/officers

You will note R Winslow is now the sole director along with the company secretary.

Disclaimer: I used to work for Richard at 123-reg and he is a great guy.
I might not agree with the "opt-out" but he always put the customer first.

 

[mojoco]

Examples of unfair contact terms
The list of terms that are likely to be unfair includes the following examples:

• terms that allow the trader to unilaterally change the characteristics of the goods or services without good reason

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...-terms-in-consumer-contracts-regulations-1999

 

[mojoco]

"... you have a right to challenge a contract term if you think it's unfair. Only a court can decide whether a term is unfair.

But you can report a contract term you think is unfair to your local trading standards department or the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) which replaced the Office of Fair Trading in April 2014. "

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...s-an-unfair-term-in-my-contract-what-can-i-do