123REG Taking Liberties with your .uk domain registration rights

[ian]

Thanks.

123Reg are the current registrar for the few .co.uk names I have registered there, but I have no contractual relationship whatsoever with this company called Identity Protect Limited.

Does this mean that registrars are legally allowed to pass on rights of registration to anyone/ any company they want without my permission?

I suspect Identity Protect Limited is a company owned by 123Reg for their whois protection (total waste of money on uk domains where you can opt-out anyway if a UK individual) is part of that. If you request its removal, I would have thought it will then show your registrant information, but I'd double check first.

Perhaps email them and ask why your right of registration for certain domains have been exercised without your express permission and why ownership is in the name of identity protect. Ask specifically for the contract which states they are entitled to carry out both actions.

 

[Edwin]

The “benefit” (note the quotes - it’s a benefit to 123-Reg not to their customers) of having Identity Protect Limited is that 123-Reg can hang on to domains when the right is not taken up, or when they’re not renewed, without anyone other than the supposed registrant and 123-Reg knowing.

You see, from the outside world point of view nothing will change on the Whois record if 123-Reg poach the name, because they can just leave it under Identity Protect Limited ie the Whois stays the same. But behind the scenes it won’t belong to a customer but to 123-Reg.

That’s how it’s done in .com: the domains are held by a legally separate entity (so that the registrar can say “we don’t stockpile domains” and be telling the truthish) yet that entity is another group company of the organisation that owns the registrar. Provides just enough of a veneer of legitimacy that they get away with it...

 

[Nigel]

amazing how this .uk debate has moved on

seems like only yesterday that I remember watching a .uk registrar consultation video, in which the nominet spokesperson told the audience that they chose not to consult their 10m .co.uk registrants about the possible introduction of .uk, because it might be deemed spamming them. And here we are a few years later with .uk domains being registered by a registrar, without prior contact or approval of the registrant, and with the registrant's details hidden behind the registrar's own privacy service.

 

[grandwizard]

Not the point here, the point is that despite the '2 years free registration' offered by Nominet, 123Reg are not asking permission of their customers to take these domains out of ROR; more so, they are adding privacy conditions too, which effectively puts the domains in another entities name, so when the time comes to renew, 123Reg are in a prime position to simply retain the domains themselves.

Ian just what are you specifically accusing 123 Reg Off? be specific, are they trying to steal these names ? make profit over renewals? Rip off customers? what is the crime here? not asking permission to protect their clients?, what is your issue because if this is a conspiracy to retain millions of .uk domains for themselves surely is a poor way to execute this? but since you have inside proof please share with the public the full 123 Reg Plan before smearing a company. I am new to this forum not sure who @ invincible is but he seems to be the only one talking sense on this subject if this forum is just an echo chamber for moaners/ Mob groups I rather sit out on discussions next time as attacking members for their views seems cowardly. Dozens of businesses I work with have no issues with this seems the only guys with the issues are domainers! instead of smearing 123reg perhaps we need to ask them for a response first instead of ripping a companies reputation, you guys need to direct your criticism to nominet the entity which introduced the most stupid idea in uk domain history by introducing the .uk causing this chaos .

 

[ian]

Ian just what are you specifically accusing 123 Reg Off? be specific, are they trying to steal these names ? make profit over renewals? Rip off customers? what is the crime here? not asking permission to protect their clients?, what is your issue because if this is a conspiracy to retain millions of .uk domains for themselves surely is a poor way to execute this? but since you have inside proof please share with the public the full 123 Reg Plan before smearing a company. I am new to this forum not sure who @ invincible is but he seems to be the only one talking sense on this subject if this forum is just an echo chamber for moaners/ Mob groups I rather sit out on discussions next time as attacking members for their views seems cowardly. Dozens of businesses I work with have no issues with this seems the only guys with the issues are domainers! instead of smearing 123reg perhaps we need to ask them for a response first instead of ripping a companies reputation, you guys need to direct your criticism to nominet the entity which introduced the most stupid idea in uk domain history by introducing the .uk causing this chaos .

I thought I made it quite clear, but obviously not. I didn't publish this thread and didn't know about it, but I'm merely questioning why 123Reg are taking it upon themselves to remove the ROR status from customers domains when no rights need to be exercised until June 2019. In my view (without proof), it helps bolster numbers in support of .uk (a priority for registrars and Nominet to ensure .uk continues to profit for them), in addition to ensuring that when the time comes, 123Reg (and maybe others, that isn't the discussion of this thread) are perfectly positioned to 'take' ownership of said domains if customers (knowingly or otherwise) don't renew them, as appose to exercise their rights. I however am not a customer of 123Reg (glad I'm not for a multitude of personal reasons), I don't know (as invincible alluded to) whether they have t&c's in place that allow for such registrations (customers in this thread are suggesting they didn't know), therefore I'm only giving an opinion, nothing more, and will leave it at that.

 

[Nigel]

perfectly reasonable to scrutinise 123reg's action and for some of their clients on here to show some concern at the way in which 123Reg have decided to activate THEIR ROR. Remember Host Europe were one of the registrars that pushed hard for .uk and said their customers would be willing to pay £20! (a Host Europe spokesperson said that in one of the nominet consultations) No wonder we're wary of them!

 

[grandwizard]

I thought I made it quite clear, but obviously not. I didn't publish this thread and didn't know about it, but I'm merely questioning why 123Reg are taking it upon themselves to remove the ROR status from customers domains when no rights need to be exercised until June 2019. In my view (without proof), it helps bolster numbers in support of .uk (a priority for registrars and Nominet to ensure .uk continues to profit for them), in addition to ensuring that when the time comes, 123Reg (and maybe others, that isn't the discussion of this thread) are perfectly positioned to 'take' ownership of said domains if customers (knowingly or otherwise) don't renew them, as appose to exercise their rights. I however am not a customer of 123Reg (glad I'm not for a multitude of personal reasons), I don't know (as invincible alluded to) whether they have t&c's in place that allow for such registrations (customers in this thread are suggesting they didn't know), therefore I'm only giving an opinion, nothing more, and will leave it at that.

I don't have an issue with opinions but drawing conclusions on a fly is intellectually dishonest in this debate and unfair to the Business in question. Look name your business and I can find something to smear about your company hell I can draw conclusions about anything there is a difference between opinions and a blatant attempt to implicitly portray a company in a bad light especially when the company is unable and more importantly not responded. In any event I am not a PC police but I think we need to be more measured before we impulsively draw quick conclusions thanks for your response Take Care.

perfectly reasonable to scrutinise 123reg's action and for some of their clients on here to show some concern at the way in which 123Reg have decided to activate THEIR ROR. Remember Host Europe were one of the registrars that pushed hard for .uk and said their customers would be willing to pay £20! (a Host Europe spokesperson said that in one of the nominet consultations) No wonder we're wary of them!

They were pushing for .uk? oh shocker! Host Europe looking for ways to maximize profit! horrible greedy company give me a break Pal. There are far worse things Host Europe has done in my view , making more money is not one of them respectfully. They charge xx for names we charge xxx, to x,xxx,xxx + for domains if they want to charge more let them is a free market let the market dictate . I take it you charge very low prices for your domains? anyway thanks for responding .

 

[Edwin]

I suspect Identity Protect Limited is a company owned by 123Reg for their whois protection (total waste of money on uk domains where you can opt-out anyway if a UK individual) is part of that.

Identity Protect Limited's shares are owned by Mesh Digital, which is a group company of the group that includes 123Reg.

 

[aZooZa]

https://www.123-reg.co.uk/terms/

You'll need a bigger shovel than I have to dig very deep...

 

[RobM]

Well it's moot now. Nominet have just said that the registrar has the right to take action on behalf of their customers which includes taking up the rights of registration for them. They only suggest that 'best practice' would be to notify the customer.

 

[Whois-Search]

Well it's moot now. Nominet have just said that the registrar has the right to take action on behalf of their customers which includes taking up the rights of registration for them. They only suggest that 'best practice' would be to notify the customer.

That’s not what their registrant agreement says:

6.1 By registering your domain name you promise that:
6.1.1 you (or your registrar) have the permission of any person whose personal data is to be held on the register in line with condition 8;
https://nominet-prod.s3.amazonaws.c...nd_Conditions_of_Domain_Name_Registration.pdf

Now while 123-reg may have permission of “Identity Protect Ltd” (as it is their company) for the Whois - do they have permission off the customer to register their right to the .uk ?

If this were “Whois privacy” then 123-reg should be using the new Whois privacy framework here:

http://registrars.nominet.uk/namespace/uk/privacy-service-framework

However then you are back to getting permission to upload the underlying registrant data to Nominet.

Also...

If you search DRS decisions for known Whois privacy companies you will note some of them have three strikes already. That means anyone with rights to a term could DRS one of these .uk names and it will be transferred on a summary transfer?

Search for “Identity Protect Ltd” on here:

https://secure.nominet.org.uk/drs/search-disputes.html

or look at D00015336 enterprise.org.uk

 

[RobM]

Well that's what they just emailed me. It's really just a 'go away we're letting 123reg do what they want' email.

 

[simondooner]

The fundamental issue for me in all this is that 123Reg have taken action without my express permission and against my wishes. I’m very uncomfortable about that.

Thanks to 123Reg a company I have no relationship with (Identity Protect Limited) is now the registrant of a domain that is not theirs.

Does this worrying precedent give 123Reg the right to transfer other UK domains held with them as they see fit - all on the premise that they can take action on behalf of their customers?

 

[scottmccloud]

It would be interesting to see if they do anything like this after GDPR comes in next year. I'm in no way a legal expert, but I can't see actions like this being compliant.

 

[Whois-Search]

Two more questions for Nominet....

The 123-reg service “Identity Protect Ltd” has a PO Box according to their website:

https://www.123-reg.co.uk/support/answers/what-is-whois-privacy-462/

PO Boxes are not allowed in .uk registrations ?

See 7 on .uk rules https://nominet-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Rules_June_2014.pdf


And according to the .UK and Data Quality Process Charts for Registrars:

http://registrars.nominet.uk/sites/default/files/registrarprocessmaps-v14.pdf

Chart 3b. Nominet internal process .uk domain name not registered – a right exists ON SAME REGISTRAR TAG

Nominet should check:

Is the applicant the person who holds the rights?

Which looks at:

match of name, address and email
• 100% character match
• Not case sensitive
• Address only looks at address 1, postcode and country codes

How did Nominet match the address and email address of the registrant to that of Identity Protect Ltd ?

 

[RobM]

The fundamental issue for me in all this is that 123Reg have taken action without my express permission and against my wishes. I’m very uncomfortable about that.

Thanks to 123Reg a company I have no relationship with (Identity Protect Limited) is now the registrant of a domain that is not theirs.

Does this worrying precedent give 123Reg the right to transfer other UK domains held with them as they see fit - all on the premise that they can take action on behalf of their customers?

I'd be very concerned about who would be the target if there was any legal action due to the registration.

 

[martin-s]

Are Nominet abiding by their own published terms or not? It's hard to say

 

[Edwin]

If they transferred it to their privacy service afterwards, then the way they’ve done it means they’ve taken legal ownership of something that belonged to someone else (because they didn’t use the Nominet privacy framework that retains underlying ownership info)

How can it be legal to summarily appropriate millions of other peoples’ domains? That’s much worse than what I initially thought they’d done, because the original registrant is no longer recorded anywhere “official” (ie Nominet run) as owning the .uk version of their domain.

 

[RobM]

If a single person has had a .uk registration made on their behalf without permission please contact nominet. A person there has just told me that when a tagholder submits a registration request they are required to have the authority of the registrants to do it. I see the only way to get round this is to claim the registrant has given authority but if that's not the holder of the rights to the registration that means the RoR is irrelevant.

 

[rwinslow]

Having looked at this in a little more detail it would appear that my .UK domain right of registration has been exercised by a company called Identity Protect Limited. This is not me, I do not know this company, nor do I have any contractual relationship with them. Legally It would appear that I am no longer the registrant of these .uk domains.

My right of registration has been taken from me and exercised without my express permission, against my wishes, by a company I have no contractual relationship with.

This isn’t the Wild West. How is this allowed to happen?

Once registration is completed domain activation can be set through the control panel which will allow the normal editing of domain whois details, DNS etc. It was thought best to put domains through using the privacy service without charge, so as not to populate the public database with registrant information. The privacy service in the background has the actual registrant information for the qualifying .co.uk.