123REG Taking Liberties with your .uk domain registration rights

[martin-s]

The privacy service in the background has the actual registrant information for the qualifying .co.uk.

Can we trust you to police yourselves though?

 

[rwinslow]

Can we trust you to police yourselves though?

Emails (and control panel pages) have been sent to all ROR applicable holders explaining that these domains are registered on the registrants behalf, for two years.

 

[simondooner]

@rwinslow

I'll reiterate for the sake of clarity... The fundamental issue for me is that 123Reg have taken action without my express permission and against my wishes.

 

[RobM]

Emails (and control panel pages) have been sent to all ROR applicable holders explaining that these domains are registered on the registrants behalf, for two years.

Why? Could it be to take advantage of auto-renewals not being cancelled on RoR date. I can't really understand why you think it's ok for people to do this. What's next - pointing nameservers to something else and 'sending an email' to point them back if you want? 'Dear Sir, we noticed you have no nameservers set for your domain so we have provided the service of pointing them to our page. If you don't like this just log in, go through all the spam, find the domain, and change it back. No worries. PS if you're still using this in a while we'll charge you for the service.'

 

[Nigel]

Yes I agree with that point about the nameservers. Hundreds of thousands (I assume - going by 123reg share of .co.uk market) of .uks are being registered with no nameserver listed and privacy set. I can't imagine that was the plan when this was set in motion by 123-reg. So what is your plan for these nameservers? Will they start advertising 123-Reg or are they going to be monetized? Or are you going to leave them with no nameserver for the next 2 years?

 

[RobM]

Just to reiterate that the nameservers thing was a sarcastic example of people using your domains to do what they want to profit themselves. That's not what the original point is about.... oh hang on yes it is.

 

[ian]

Once registration is completed domain activation can be set through the control panel which will allow the normal editing of domain whois details, DNS etc. It was thought best to put domains through using the privacy service without charge, so as not to populate the public database with registrant information. The privacy service in the background has the actual registrant information for the qualifying .co.uk.

Question (assuming you represent 123reg), are both the .uk domain and the privacy service 'auto-renew'? There is no justification for exercising ROR status at this time and if your answer to my question is "yes", I seriously question the morality of 123reg's tactics!

 

[Whois-Search]

Perhaps refer to question 34 at: http://registrars.nominet.uk/namespace/uk/launch/q-and-a#faq-id-749

In which case if Nominet are going to validate Identity Protect Ltd against companies house as the registrant it should be showing the address on companies house:

Registered office address
5th Floor, The Shipping Building Old Vinyl Factory, 252 - 254 Blyth Road, Hayes, Middlesex, UB3 1HA

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07407280

And any mail (DRS etc) should come to that address.

Trying to exercise a .uk ROR via the WDM using a different registrant name returns the error “Domain not created - V334 Your request for domain '{domain}.uk' has failed because the 'account-name' for the registrant does not fully match any registrant which has rights for this domain” so perhaps they registered it first and then transferred it to their privacy service after.

Yes and that is the bit that concerns me...

It seems the original registrant data was used to create the .uk as it’s the only way to do it.

The names were then transferred (as an ACP) to Identity Protect Ltd.

Nominet hasn’t been given the underlying registrant data because 123-reg is not using the new Whois privacy framework:

http://registrars.nominet.uk/sites/default/files/privacy_service_framework.pdf

A name with Whois privacy framework has this in the Whois like Godaddy has:

Registrant:
Name withheld. This Registrant is using a privacy service.

Registrant's address:
Address withheld. This Registrant is using a privacy service.

Privacy service:
Domains By Proxy, LLC

Privacy service's address:
14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309, Scottsdale, AZ 85260, USA

https://www.nominet.uk/whois/?query=cardiagnostictool.co.uk

 

[RobM]

Question (assuming you represent 123reg), are both the .uk domain and the privacy service 'auto-renew'? There is no justification for exercising ROR status at this time and if your answer to my question is "yes", I seriously question the morality of 123reg's tactics!

Also it makes nominet figures look good for uptake of .uk even if it is without permission. Hmmm who benefits here? Clue: once again it's NOT the general public/clients.

 

[JMI]

Does anyone roughly know what % of the "11 million" .co.uk market share 123 have.

 

[martin-s]

(assuming you represent 123reg)

Yes, Richard is the 123-reg Brand Director

 

[martin-s]

You need to be careful mentioning names in threads here. .

Someone was questioning Richard's right to comment in relation to 123-Reg. I confirmed his role at the firm - don't see much to complain about. He joined in with conversation of his own accord.

 

[martin-s]

What’s not to like (from a rights holder registrant perspective rather than a drop catcher in waiting)?

It all depends whether the name is set to autorenew at the registrant's expense or not. And what happens to the name if the registrant chooses not to renew.

 

[Nigel]

It all depends whether the name is set to autorenew at the registrant's expense or not. And what happens to the name if the registrant chooses not to renew.

agreed - it's about following proper business procedures - not the registrar deciding what they feel is in the customer's best interests. I noticed that the man from 123 didn't answer the question about the nameservers and what their plans are in this respect.

 

[RobM]

They don't feel it's in the customers best interests at all. Their brand director and the nominet brown noser think we're all stupid. They have implemented this because they KNOW that not everyone will be in a position to prevent renewal charges which is guaranteed money for them when the period is up. Some (maybe most) will but they will still make a fortune. Also the more they break the rules and get away with it the more they will do - it's very possible they won't let domains drop from this and keep them for themselves. Another revenue stream. Hey nominet won't do anything right? However if nominet are not bothering to enforce their own rules, and I've had two completely conflicting answers from them today, it will become a free for all to do anything they want. If this is a breach of nominet T&C they should also be punished, legally if possible, along with the spam 123.

 

[Whois-Search]

That’s two years away. Everyone I’ve spoken to hopes rights holders to activate these .uk domain names during the free period, that they’ll make use of them and then feel they’re able to make an informed choice near the expiration of the free two year period about whether to renew or not (obviously registrar and registry would prefer a renew).

Everyone you’ve spoken? What that works for Nominet or $large registrar?

Let’s just be honest here while Nominet is putting out blogs like this:

http://www.nominet.blog/top-tips-growing-registry/

Not even mentioning the .uk freebie....

There is clearly only one thing on the executives mind and that’s increasing the size of the registry

Next thing you know they will be coming out saying they are bigger than .de

https://www.denic.de/en/know-how/statistics/

And in two years time those large registrars are in for a massive pay day = millions of pounds

 

[atlas]

It’s not really arguable that offering two years of a domain name registration for free isn’t in registrants interests. I expect to be exercising a great number of RoR’s this month for a registrant who is delighted about it (nothing to do without 123-reg but same offer).

In your opinion. From what I've seen, people are willing to pay slightly more for a .co.uk domain with an ROR, than for the .co.uk & .uk pair. So, it's at least arguable that it is not in the registrant's interest. You'll notice many people on the forum have the opportunity to exercise the ROR for free, and yet do not do so, presumably because it is in their commercial interests not to do so.

 

[Whois-Search]

Not “only one thing” but increasing DUM is obviously an ambition of any TLD. Isn’t it the ambition of your registrar too?

If their DUM size increases beyond that of .de, would they be telling an untruth? DUM is a widely used statistic but we all know it’s flakey.

If they deliver a service in return they’ll be compensated for it. Quite usual.

I had setup Register.uk to try and take advantage of the level playing field in .uk rights registration. Up until fairly recently it was possible for .uk to be registered cheaper with us.

However then this offer came about from Nominet and for the next two years at least the main bulk of ROR names have now been registered. Today it doesn’t even matter that 123-reg has increased their .uk price to £9.99 because the registrant doesn’t even have to look at the prices for two years?

All smaller registrars have been totally cut out of the potential .uk market by these tactics and I’m absolutely fed up with it.

I shall be making a complaint to the CMA about this in due course:

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[DaveBeasley]

Forgot to add, here's the reply I got from Nominet regarding my complaint

Hi Dave,


Thank you for your email and I appreciate your comments.


As you rightly say, anyone with a right of registration for the shorter .uk domain name has until 2019 to exercise that right. That will have been 5 years since the shorter domain names were introduced. Although we have seen a steady take-up of these rights, there are still a large number of registrants that have yet to take any action. Once 10 June 2019 has passed, these rights will be lost and the shorter domain names will become available on a first-come, first-served basis.


While we continue to encourage registrants to take advantage of their rights during this claim period, it's understandable (with so many unique registrants) that the message isn't going to get to everyone, nor will some people understand the possible implications of not exercising their rights. It's my understanding that 123-REG have conducted their own research, and following customer feedback, contacted all the rights holders for qualifying domain names under their management. They were offering a two-year free registration of any domain names that currently had rights. In their communications, there was an option for customers to opt out of taking advantage of this offer. I appreciate that you might not have been involved in their market research.


Balancing the needs of a expectations of a huge and diverse customer-base is never an easy task. We have reviewed the agreement that 123-REG, and all our registrars, have entered into to become a member of Nominet (the RA - Registrar Agreement). There is nothing in that RA which prohibits this activity. It could be argued that by pro-actively protecting their existing customers by exercising these rights on behalf of the customer, they are actually adhering to the fundamental tenet of the RA which is to act in the best interest of .uk domain name registrants. The RA also says that registrars can act on behalf of their customers, which is in essence what this promotion involves.


I appreciate that you, and others, may not feel this way. If you want me to cancel the domain names already registered in this way, please do let me know. It's important that I tell you that if these domain names are cancelled, the rights will be lost and the 2019 date will not apply.


It's my understanding that Identity Protect Limited are actually an arm of 123-REG so I don't feel there's anything untoward happening with these registrations. If you have given clear instruction that you don't want other domain names registered, they should take notice of that. It may be worth checking your 123-REG account to make sure that a) the shorter domain names have not been registered and b) you have opted out of taking advantage of the promotion and c) you won't have any unsuspected auto-renewals moving forward.


Don't forget that if you have any domain names with 123-REG that you want to keep, there is always the option of moving to another provider.


As always, your feedback is appreciated and I will pass it on.


Regards

James Middleditch
Customer Resolution Team
Customer Services

 

[RobM]

I love the way they keep referring to 'your rights' but then take them away from you. Will they let you transfer 'your' domains to another tag? If so tell them you'd like them to register all your uk for you before you transfer them away