Why do we struggle?

[humble pie]

I like that metric because it keeps the wastrels out.. we only want real plaayas in the new internet now..not people chucking up thin sites.

Hopefully next they'll punish all wp sites so the scenario were left with is only the strongest survive e.g. bespoke coded sites + quality content + quality urls (loans.co.uk or sunny.co.uk) It will make it even harder for spam to enter the market.

And what defines a "quality url" - the size of your wallet? That sounds like a great metric.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I like that metric because it keeps the wastrels out.. we only want real plaayas in the new internet now..not people chucking up thin sites.

Hopefully next they'll punish all wp sites so the scenario were left with is only the strongest survive e.g. bespoke coded sites + quality content + quality urls (loans.co.uk or sunny.co.uk) It will make it even harder for spam to enter the market.

You can detect a thin site by checking if it's a thin site, the domain has nothing to do with it.

Spam is spam, it doesn't matter if it's on a keyword domain, brandable domain, bespoke build, Wordpress blog or is 1 page or 1000. Google can detect all of this quite easily, the domain is irrelevant. To use how much someone can afford to pay for their domain as a relevancy metric for the query at hand is completely absurd. As is the using the platform it's built on. There are lots of valuable resources built on Wordpress and lots of spam sites built on bespoke builds.

Are you just trolling? There is seriously no way you can genuinely believe half of what you post. You've either been offline for the past 3 years or you're a portfolio owner who is trying to cling on to every last bit of hope of making a return on their investment.

 

[humble pie]

I think you've lost sight of all this from a business perspective.

Out of interest do you run many online businesses, how are you makign money right now from the Internet?

You can detect a thin site by checking if it's a thin site, the domain has nothing to do with it.

Spam is spam, it doesn't matter if it's on a keyword domain, brandable domain, bespoke build, Wordpress blog or is 1 page or 1000. Google can detect all of this quite easily, the domain is irrelevant. To use how much someone can afford to pay for their domain as a relevancy metric for the query at hand is completely absurd. As is the using the platform it's built on. There are lots of valuable resources built on Wordpress and lots of spam sites built on bespoke builds.

Are you just trolling? There is seriously no way you can genuinely believe half of what you post. You've either been offline for the past 3 years or you're a portfolio owner who is trying to cling on to every last bit of hope of making a return on their investment.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I think you've lost sight of all this from a business perspective.

Out of interest do you run many online businesses, how are you makign money right now from the Internet?

A business perspective in what sense?

Right now I don't run any online businesses. I work as a freelance PHP dev and SEO for a handful of clients.

 

[humble pie]

I just need to understand how you arrive at your conclusions.

Based on what you've just said:

you've either been offline for the past 3 years or you're a portfolio owner who is trying to cling on to every last bit of hope of making a return on their investment.

and the statements you've made in your posts, there are a lot of successful people on this forum and companies worldwide who make a good living doing the complete reverse of what you say..

thus.co.uk it would lead one to believe that your definitely not a domain portfolio owner yourself (of any magnitude) or someone that has never invested large sums of money (you could say risked to some extent too) in a *quality* domain and seen the benefits of it working in the real world - correct?

What I'm trying to say (without sounding patronising) is that your evident fury and hatred in the failure of 'emds' 'generics' keyword domains' lights.co.uk types doomed never to become the dominant 'brand' in their space etc is founded on what personal experiences other than that google is not now ranking thin .org.uk wp minisites?

By the way you don't have to pretend your going to sell flyerdesign.co.uk to someone else beacuse I know you love emds really.

As Podovsky said to Rambo whilst torturing him "you may scream, there is no shame"...

A business perspective in what sense?

Right now I don't run any online businesses. I work as a freelance PHP dev and SEO for a handful of clients.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I just need to understand how you arrive at your conclusions.

Based on what you've just said:

you've either been offline for the past 3 years or you're a portfolio owner who is trying to cling on to every last bit of hope of making a return on their investment.

and the statements you've made in your posts, there are a lot of successful people on this forum and companies worldwide who make a good living doing the complete reverse of what you say..

thus.co.uk it would lead one to believe that your definitely not a domain portfolio owner yourself (of any magnitude) or someone that has never invested large sums of money (you could say risked to some extent too) in a *quality* domain and seen the benefits of it working in the real world - correct?

What I'm trying to say (without sounding patronising) is that your evident fury and hatred in the failure of 'emds' 'generics' keyword domains' lights.co.uk types doomed never to become the dominant 'brand' in their space etc is founded on what personal experiences other than that google is not now ranking thin .org.uk wp minisites?

By the way you don't have to pretend your going to sell flyerdesign.co.uk to someone else beacuse I know you love emds really.

As Podovsky said to Rambo whilst torturing him "you may scream, there is no shame"...

What I don't understand with guys like you who are adamant the EMD is the be all and end all, why aren't you hoovering them up? Why am I able to win an auction on a domain like FlyerDesign.co.uk for £50 when Acorn is full of people who believe the EMD is the best thing since sliced bread? It doesn't really make much sense. Either you know the market isn't there for them or you're not successful enough yourselves to be able to put your money where your mouth is. Either way, it doesn't paint a good picture.

 

[Brassneck]

What I don't understand with guys like you who are adamant the EMD is the be all and end all, why aren't you hoovering them up? Why am I able to win an auction on a domain like FlyerDesign.co.uk for £50 when Acorn is full of people who believe the EMD is the best thing since sliced bread? It doesn't really make much sense. Either you know the market isn't there for them or you're not successful enough yourselves to be able to put your money where your mouth is. Either way, it doesn't paint a good picture.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there. There seem only 2 kinds of secondary markets nowadays.

The super secret premium market where big sales are 'always being done'.

The public acorn and domainlore market where you can hardly give them away.


The lack of transparency and the lack of realism over the years (including over pricing) stopped any decent secondary market ever being created and now it is too late to reverse that with Google changes and the huge number of competing extensions. So many good names warehoused that will never be used successfully.

Stephen

 

[Retired_Member42]

If they worked, there would be a market for them. The reason there is no market is because they don't work.

I'm sure some .co.uk still change hands for good money, but I think it'll be shorts, brandable dictionary words, existing business names or brand names that people have come up with in general that someone else just happens to own. I don't think there is any significant market for product/service/keyword EMD's either publicly or behind closed doors. When I say significant, I mean EMDs fetching 4/5/6 figures as they used to, not being able to take a £50 domain and flip it to someone in the niche for £100.

 

[Skinner]

Nah, 3 types of market...

Type 1, I have no doubt does occur but its mostly smoke and mirrors and fantasy land types who warble on the players say jack, but these deals DO happen.

Type 2 is resellers and domainers, or "trade" type prices, so obviously lower prices than the open market.

There is a type Type 3 which are routine End User sales. These are not every day, nor are they big money but they are ok money and they are regular. Usually domains which wouldn't sell for £50 on here. I recently sold a L-L.co.uk for mid xxx, yet on here You can't give it away, loads of similar domain sales happen.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there. There seem only 2 kinds of secondary markets nowadays.

(Type 1) The super secret premium market where big sales are 'always being done'.

(Type 2) The public acorn and domainlore market where you can hardly give them away.

I added the bold to your post for clarity.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Nah, 3 types of market...

Type 1, I have no doubt does occur but its mostly smoke and mirrors and fantasy land types who warble on the players say jack, but these deals DO happen.

Type 2 is resellers and domainers, or "trade" type prices, so obviously lower prices than the open market.

There is a type Type 3 which are routine End User sales. These are not every day, nor are they big money but they are ok money and they are regular. Usually domains which wouldn't sell for £50 on here. I recently sold a L-L.co.uk for mid xxx, yet on here You can't give it away, loads of similar domain sales happen.



I added the bold to your post for clarity.

I agree with this, this is what I see too. Although most of the keyword/product/service domains that change hands tend to happen in the type 2 market. I do sell the odd product/service EMD to the type 3 market but I've not had someone want to re-brand their business on one or use one for a new project in the past few years. Usually they just buy it for vanity or perhaps they're somewhat nostalgic. I see people just direct them to their current site or a sub section of it or even simply buy it for protection to stop someone spamming it up. I've found people are willing to pay low £XXX just to do away with the potential threat of the EMD even though I consider there to be none personally. There are lots of reasons for domain buys, in all of the aforementioned type markets but when it comes down to it for a new brand, the EMDs are really not a good fit.

 

[websaway]

Don't forget though that despite all the analysing of the variables.

A short descriptive service/product/industry domain like

Lights dot co dot uk

can be a massive short cut to company/service recognition.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Don't forget though that despite all the analysing of the variables.

A short descriptive service/product/industry domain like

Lights dot co dot uk

can be a massive short cut to company/service recognition.

Yes, let's forget all variables, metrics and real world evidence that we can all see as to what works and what doesn't. Let's just build all our businesses on EMD's and tell anyone who will listen to do the same. This way we may be able to make some money back on the domains we stock piled pre-2012 that we can't give away for free in 2015

 

[websaway]

Yes, let's forget all variables, metrics and real world evidence that we can all see as to what works and what doesn't. Let's just build all our businesses on EMD's and tell anyone who will listen to do the same. This way we may be able to make some money back on the domains we stock piled pre-2012 that we can't give away for free in 2015

I didn't say forget the variables, I said despite the variables, meaning notwithstanding the variables. I'm not suggesting the variables be ignored.


Now don't keep banging on about your seo business,
this is after all a domain forum.
All industries have good times and bad, winners and losers, it's probably best not to be cynical.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I didn't say forget the variables, I said despite the variables, meaning notwithstanding the variables. I'm not suggesting the variables be ignored.


Now don't keep banging on about your seo business,
this is after all a domain forum.
All industries have good times and bad, winners and losers, it's probably best not to be cynical.

You seem to say a lot without saying anything at all. Do you have any counter argument to my points whatsoever other than listing the odd EMD success or repeating the same thing over and over and over that an EMD is good for brand recognition if you forget, sorry, despite the factors that make them poor?

I'm not forcing anyone to follow my way of thinking, nor am I saying that you're all idiots for pushing EMD's. I'm just sharing what I see in the hope that someone takes it on board if they are considering a new business. I hardly think I'm banging on about my SEO business. I refer to SEO on occasion as it is/was one of the major contributing factors to EMD success and value. It is also an important factor if you're looking to make a success of yourself online.

This is a domain forum, that is one thing you've been right about and this thread is all about the right/wrong domain choices. Although I am sitting here writing this asking myself what is the point, I really have nothing to gain do I... In fact having more people know what works and what doesn't probably does more harm to my business than good.

So yes, let's jump on the EMD bandwagon and all sell each other our portfolios whilst people in the real world quietly build their brands without any SEO trickery, 5 year old marketing techniques or influence from domainer sales pitch guff.

 

[martin-s]

Redemption, you talk about EMDs as if they have had a penalty applied rather than just having less of a ranking boost these days.

A premium, category owning EMD is still a valuable commodity and business lever. I'd agree with what you say if you're talking about low-rent, long-tail stuff, but not the genuinely business defining names.

You ask for evidence that EMDs do work, but I haven't seen you provide any that they can't/don't...?

 

[philiporchard]

Redemption, you talk about EMDs as if they have had a penalty applied rather than just having less of a ranking boost these days.

A premium, category owning EMD is still a valuable commodity and business lever. I'd agree with what you say if you're talking about low-rent, long-tail stuff, but not the genuinely business defining names.

You ask for evidence that EMDs do work, but I haven't seen you provide any that they can't/don't...?

I agree.

The value of a premium generic EMD - whether a geo, or category defining can provide instant credibility....

Not sure about long tail multiple word stuff - but the top stuff. And yes, I'd put Lights.co.uk in that bracket.

 

[websaway]

What I'm looking at ( after all this thread was about the sale of lights dot co dot uk ) is the company that bought the domain certainly are no amateurs and they have not bought it to warehouse. They have developed it and it looks pretty good to me.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Is this thread stuck on loop, for every 5 posts I do the same 3 people turn up and post the exact same thing from a few pages ago I'll leave you guys to it.

 

[BeachLife]

I can think of only 3 on this board that have made proper businesses on EMDs in the last few years. Martin-s, Phil and one other. Yet there are dozens of domain holders, with tens of thousands of EMDs, all shouting just how valuable they are to a business.

To Phil and Martin, I would ask just how different their businesses would have developed without the EMD? You may be underestimating your own business acumen and placing too much credit on the EMD.

What I'm looking at ( after all this thread was about the sale of lights dot co dot uk ) is the company that bought the domain certainly are no amateurs and they have not bought it to warehouse. They have developed it and it looks pretty good to me.

They haven't developed it really, just chucked the English language version of lamenwelt.de, lampenwelt.ch and lampenwelt.at on it.

 

[websaway]

Is this thread stuck on loop, for every 5 posts I do the same 3 people turn up and post the exact same thing from a few pages ago I'll leave you guys to it.

It might help you if you start a new thread about seo marketing.
I think because this was mostly about the pros and cons of the purchase of lights the people who see value in the name keep coming back at you.

I said earlier in the thread that what you say about seo naturally has merit, but all your views seem to be derisive toward the subject domain.