Who introduced drop catching at Nominet

[Bailey]

I never said it was wrong, however, at present it is down to how T&C's are enforced and this is very vague, those with good lawyers put in their T&C's those who are not so sure follow Nominet's published drop cycle. Result is what happens to your name may or may not be what we see on Nominet's reminder emails leading to customer confusion.

Single set of rules for all is what we need.

I'm a poor geek rather than a rich investor, so am in favour of technical know how

Good and clear T&C's are thats all thats needed from a supplier point of view. I've been caught out many a time by Godaddys changes over the years. But, I consider that down to me not keeping my eye on the ball. (or not keeping my registration up-to-date)

Why should reminders be needed in the first place. Either you manage your business/livelyhood or you don't.

i'm not in favour of any type of 'Nanny' elements in business.

 

[monaghan]

Good and clear T&C's are thats all thats needed from a supplier point of view. I've been caught out many a time by Godaddys changes over the years. But, I consider that down to me not keeping my eye on the ball. (or not keeping my registration up-to-date)

Why should reminders be needed in the first place. Either you manage your business/livelyhood or you don't.

i'm not in favour of any type of 'Nanny' elements in business.

Of course, I have no sympathy for those who don't manage their domains and loose them, reminders and invoices should be more than sufficient, however, there are T&C's and reminder emails so unless there is a global change to the rules, then these need to be consistent.

 

[Bailey]

Of course, I have no sympathy for those who don't manage their domains and loose them, reminders and invoices should be more than sufficient, however, there are T&C's and reminder emails so unless there is a global change to the rules, then these need to be consistent.

As much as I admire your input. The fact remains that there are NO Global T&C's in the Gtld world. In fact it's down to the individual registration service to set it's own T&C's. This model works extemely well.

Rule 1. keep your registration uptodate and paid-up or you could loose it at any moment.

End of Story.


You want a thousand TLDs domains spread across a dozen registration services (and trade in them) - Then you better employ someone full-time to mange them.

Or do what any sensible business decision tells you to do - consolidate your supply and procurement of services and manage it yourself

 

[monaghan]

Sorry for global read registry / reseller wide, naturally I appreciate you can't have a true global set of T&C's!

If someone registers a .co.uk through me they get the standard Nominet suspension process in addition to the Nominet emails, if someone registers through 123-reg they get a different process - customer confusion. Where the end user and the customer are the same person, then this is their look out, however, there are far too many names not registered by the end user, these are my concern, otherwise, yes I'm in full agreement, pay up on time or loose it (with a small grace period to cater for technical failure)

 

[aZooZa]

The Canada 'TBR' drop system:

• All registrars stringently vetted
• Multiple registrar 'associations' allowed (under some sufferance)
• Drop lists published by the registry
• Names drop once per week at a specific time
• It's all over but the shouting within 10 minutes

 

[Bailey]

Re Monaghans post above

Yes But, that same differences/confusion would reign in the Gtld World if you allowed it to.

What We have in the Gtld World is an understanding that YOU as the registrant have responsibility. Not your service provider. Even the technical blip is a red-herring.

The truth is that The Gtld world has grown-up in the real world market scenario. Not one governed by accesss to resources (Tag holders) Not one governed by T&C's either, you don't like the service = transfer the domains to another (There's No Cost) providing again you know your suppliers T&C's.

 

[Sound]

The Whole system was rotten from the start. And No I don't blame those that took advantage. Good luck to them - particularly those that knew it was time to get-out.

Of course Nominet are not about to allow history repeat itself - say goodbye to drop catching as we know it.

The above is how I feel Drop Catching is the elephant in the room at Nominet.

If the new UK is introduced suspended domains should be auctioned off by nominet to the general public Nominet needs to be more Business like in every department.

Its ironic that the very people who benefited from Drop catching are the ones who are now anti UK and shouting the loudest to stop any change.

 

[Edwin]

Its ironic that the very people who benefited from Drop catching are the ones who are now anti UK and shouting the loudest to stop any change.

Everyone with a .co.uk domain should be anti-.uk (unless they don't understand the consequences).

 

[Bailey]

The above is how I feel Drop Catching is the elephant in the room at Nominet.

If the new UK is introduced suspended domains should be auctioned off by nominet to the general public Nominet needs to be more Business like in every department.

Its ironic that the very people who benefited from Drop catching are the ones who are now anti UK and shouting the loudest to stop any change.

You and I are singing off the same Hymn-sheet Sound. The trouble is the "Horse has already bolted" so to say.

However, The introduction of the .UK is akin to burning down the house to fix the damp-problem in the basement imho

Or as I would put-it "The cure in this instance is worse than the disease" I personally don't think it's too late for Nominet to introduce control over the drop cycle - similar to Azooza's Post above (sure it will take a few years for things to be corrected - but thats no worse than the years of Confusion from introducing another level - conflicting with the existing one)

 

[grantw]

And whats wrong with that. This again works very well in the Gtld World. Then you would have a "market place" (in fact several) where the value of domains was highlighted "from the Get-Go"

Then it's money that talks instead of "Technical know -how". As in just about everything in the real world

The Gtld market is pretty much the equivalent of 3 TAG holders setting up auction systems, giving backhanders to large TAG holders for the right to auction their expiring domains and paying as many smaller TAG holders as possible to catch the remaining drops that are on TAGS that won't take the backhanders.

You said the UK system was rotten from the start, I'd say the Gtld system worked in exactly the same way (and still does for the domains that drop - registrar status and technical know how required!) but has evolved to a whole different type of rotten with a nice shiny public face on it!

Grant

 

[RobM]

If the new UK is introduced suspended domains should be auctioned off by nominet to the general public Nominet needs to be more Business like in every department.

I don't disagree with this. However it's TAGholders auctioning off domain names that I don't want to see.

 

[Sound]

everyone with a .co.uk domain should be anti-.uk (unless they don't understand the consequences).

no

 

[Bailey]

Everyone with a .co.uk domain should be anti-.uk (unless they don't understand the consequences).

Who asked you to join this thread - you've got your own one Bugger-off back :wink::wink:

 

[Bailey]

You said the UK system was rotten from the start, I'd say the Gtld system worked in exactly the same way (and still does for the domains that drop - registrar status and technical know how required!) but has evolved to a whole different type of rotten with a nice shiny public face on it!

Grant

It's not technical know how Grant. (there's no technical knowledge required)

The registration service that held the registration - retains the domain (or has the right to) . But and it's a big but for Why it works. Those same services have an Internal "Market Driven" incentive to get the domains back into private/company ownership as soon as possible.

It's called "Market Forces" (and payback) So thats not the same as the "Internal Know-how/Collection attitude" that became prevelant in the UK space.

I agree it's been given a "Shiny Face" (paid for by the same people that gain from it) - But, excuse me what element of a Market force business hasn't got a "Shiny"public face, or PR (public relations department) as it's more commonly known

 

[Sound]

Its amazing how many people that made money from Nominet's anti competitive and anti Business like operation of Drop Catching are now suddenly champions of Business and warning all business owners that the worlds about to end with the introduction of .UK you couldn't make it up........

 

[RobM]

You would kind of expect that attitude being on a *domain* forum about co.uk where domain buying-and-selling is most people's purpose here.

 

[Bailey]

Its amazing how many people that made money from Nominet's anti competitive and anti Business like operation of Drop Catching are now suddenly champions of Business and warning all business owners that the worlds about to end with the introduction of .UK you couldn't make it up........

I know quite funny really. But, i'm still of the camp that says .co.uk can be rescued. Sure, it Requires a ground-shift from those that have grown accustomed to the current system. Which unfortunately they probably wouldn't tolerate. Hence Nominet have come to the conclusion that a re-birth is the only way forward

 

[grantw]

It's not technical know how Grant.

The registration service that held the registration - retains the domain . But and it's a big but for Why it works. Those same services have an Internal "Market Driven" incentive to get the domains back into private/company ownership as soon as possible.

The whole thing is run by the equivalent of UK TAG holders. Some registrars retain the domains because they have done deals with namejet, snapnames etc. for them to auction off their expired domains. The remaining domains that are at registrars that haven't done deals with the auction houses drop every day, the same as .uk, and are caught by smaller registrars, most of whom have been contracted by the auction houses to catch for them so that they can be auctioned off.

Technical or not, for joe public the result is the same as .uk, they have zero chance of registering a good expiring domain at reg fee.

The UK market is one step away from this same scenario, that's one central registrar/auction house stepping in and doing deals with large registrars and existing catchers.

Personally I'm all for it as it seems to have put an acceptable face to dropcatching and puts domain values in the face of the public. I just don't think it's that far removed from how .uk works, apart from joe public ends up paying more and all the money goes to a much smaller group of people!

Grant

 

[monaghan]

Its amazing how many people that made money from Nominet's anti competitive and anti Business like operation of Drop Catching are now suddenly champions of Business and warning all business owners that the worlds about to end with the introduction of .UK you couldn't make it up........

How is drop catching anti-competitive? Surely having 50+ people trying to catch the same domain is very competitive!

As for technical know how, this is misleading, what some people can do in computer code, others can beat by research and direct contact with registrants / companies dealing with the winding up of failed companies and so on, each method is unfair on those who don't have that level of expertise.

It is unfair on the poor that some names are auctioned and sold to the highest bidder. A "good" expired domain (of any TLD) could be an excellent addition to any new business, but is out of reach for a small startup.

A batch drop of a published list of all domains in a small time window would allow auction houses, drop catchers and any other interested party to compete on a level playing field for these domains.

There are so many "unfair" elements, however, in the end it does generally boil down to who has the most money whatever the market segment.

 

[websaway]

Its amazing how many people that made money from Nominet's anti competitive and anti Business like operation of Drop Catching are now suddenly champions of Business and warning all business owners that the worlds about to end with the introduction of .UK you couldn't make it up........

I'm speaking as someone who is not involved in the drop game and i I would appreciate if you could elaborate on how you arrive at the conclusion that the method has been anti competitive and anti business ?