.uk V2.0 Questions to Nominet & their Answers

[markb]

I don't think that it's fair to you, but I also don't think that 150 exceptions for gov domains are enough to "invalidate" the whole of the proposed release mechanism. Especially when most of those 150 exceptions aren't even generics to begin with, so there is no conflict with existing registrations...

This is something you'll clearly need to fight - and hopefully if others are feeling kind, they'll put in a word as well - but you need to realise that the total number of affected people is very, very small and therefore the number of people who will kick up a loud fuss is also very, very small.

Your best bet is to track down the other affected parties (especially the Independent newspaper) and to try and get some kind of concerted response going.

You need to come up with a WORKABLE alternative solution to take to Nominet. It's insufficient to just say "this isn't fair" - you need to go with "this isn't fair, but how about this instead?"

I did come up with some alternative solutions in my email to Lesley. I have tried to contact the Independent several times with no response, maybe i'm cynical, but it wouldn't suprise me if the Independent has already been contacted by nominet with reassurance that they will not lose the new .uk domain, so they don't kick up a fuss.

I would be grateful if anyone who is attending the round table meeting with nominet, could mention the reserved name policy with nominet to get a direct response from them. If anyone would do this on my behalf, please pm me.

I think the only thing I can do is wait to see what the results of the V2 consultation are, and if they go ahead with the .uk release as is and I dont get then .uk, then I would have to take legal action against nominet.

 

[Edwin]

Well, I was told:

Thank you for your email.

You will need to register your interest first at
http://www.nominet.org.uk/second-level-domain-registration

Details of the location will then be emailed to you shortly after.

And indeed, I got the details a few hours after I registered to attend the meeting.

 

[Edwin]

I would be grateful if anyone who is attending the round table meeting with nominet, could mention the reserved name policy with nominet to get a direct response from them. If anyone would do this on my behalf, please pm me.

Why not come along to the Roundtable yourself and make your views known? There are 2 opportunities to do so, next week and on the 22nd of July. It will be much more powerful coming directly from an affected party rather than from people who have no skin in the game on that particular issue.

 

[markb]

I'm really struggling to see the general public caring about Royal.co.uk and Food.co.uk. Two domains owned by domain squatters (bear in mind thats how they're going to see you) who've already both made a real nice living from the internet, losing a single domain they weren't using for anything valid anyway (again, they are going to see a parked page for you, a for sale page for them).

You're not really doing yourself any favours to win public sympathy here.

Just because you buy a domain and don't instantly put up a website doesn't make you a domain squatter, but i'm sure people could see it that way until the site goes live. Granted I haven't lost much yet as the site is not live and I haven't yet spent thousands on marketing, but not getting the .uk really messes up my plans, do I carry on with the launch and marketing of the site, or do I now shelve the whole site and not waste our effort?

 

[Retired_Member38]

Depends how much the domain cost, and how much you've invested in development. If you've spent 3 times as much on development as you did the domain... I'd be looking to change name right now. Before you launch you're realistically no more than a find/replace in the code and a new logo away from changing it. Its a different ballgame altogether once you're actually live.

If the dev costs were 5% of the domain price... then why not just launch asap? At least having a site on the domain is going to help you in the eyes of the public. And its them that will matter, since their likely opinion is going to be sole deciding factor on whether the Daily Mail want to run your story or not.

 

[websaway]

There's nothing on the site that's been written since V2.

And that's exactly the point: the text that refers to why .uk itself is a bad idea is 100% as valid as it ever was! It didn't need a rewrite.

I will eventually rework my response to the V2 release mechanism, and submit it to Nominet (I may publish it on the site as well, I haven't decided) but the pros/cons of .uk (not the pros/cons of the release mechanism, the pros/cons of .uk itself) are basically unaffected by the specifics of the planned release mechanism.

BTW, if you're going to the Roundtable next week, I'll be there as well.

Edwin I have to be honest, I believe that your objective now is to guide this through more or less as is and make sure that if it goes through nothing changes which will adversely affect you.
If this was not the case you would have updated your site with your current objections and rallied support for a no campaign.
I don't think you can be seen to be doing that because Nominet have more or less met your personal demands.

 

[Stephen]

Discuss or Accept?

The only new discussion topic should be V2 and the actual release mechanism, because the "no to .uk" story hasn't changed at all.

I think this is the hub, you may be right and Nominet will get .uk through under the current proposal with a few tweaks.

But last time in version 1, when many here thought Nominet would get its proposal through (including you),
they were proved wrong, so nothing is final yet.

I do however think the "no position" to .uk has changed as the UK namespace
would be a different place under V2 compared to V1 and those differences need to be explored.

.uk is still as big a change to the UK namespace as it was under V1 and I believe all alternatives,
big and small still need considering.

I know you have stated the benefits of .uk have been explained by the several Nominet documents,
however on reading them I would say they are "reasons" not "benefits".

Even the supposed benefit of .uk opening up more names,
is questionable as I believe most (not all) would not want to develop a .co.uk without owning the .uk (and vice versa).
Although Nominet is not releasing the figures to the public any more,
I think the figure are that .co.uk makes up over 90% of UK domain registrations.

 

[markb]

Edwin I have to be honest, I believe that your objective now is to guide this through more or less as is and make sure that if it goes through nothing changes which will adversely affect you.
If this was not the case you would have updated your site with your current objections and rallied support for a no campaign.
I don't think you can be seen to be doing that because Nominet have more or less met your personal demands.

The majority of people on here are currently looking to guide v2 through in the best way that causes least harm to themselves, myself included in this. For example if nominet decided to reserve maps.uk or a premium name which someone else on here owned which they had plans for, they would soon change their tune, and wouldn't be calling it collateral damage.

Maybe we all should be trying harder to stop this, and bring the whole thing to the attention of the UK public and small businesses.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Maybe we all should be trying harder to stop this, and bring the whole thing to the attention of the UK public and small businesses.

I think most people have decided that trying to stop it is futile and/or going to cost them money.

To be completely honest, my own position on this is that its going to go ahead no matter what I do. So waste time trying to fight something that is inevitable... and if I somehow succeed all I've done is wasted hundreds of hours to give myself a pay cut.

 

[markb]

I think most people have decided that trying to stop it is futile and/or going to cost them money.

To be completely honest, my own position on this is that its going to go ahead no matter what I do. So waste time trying to fight something that is inevitable... and if I somehow succeed all I've done is wasted hundreds of hours to give myself a pay cut.

I know what you mean, its like when the government want to build a new motorway that runs through peoples land or nearby them causing disruption. Everyone protests but it goes ahead anyway. The government however, ends up having to compensate everyone it directly effects. So maybe everyone who is directly effected by the .uk, should push for compensation to be paid from nominet. This could potentially take away all the profit they make from the release, but as they are a non-profit company, this shouldn't matter to them.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Mark, I told you a few posts back, you need to decide if you're for or against direct.uk. Writing to Lesley trying to negotiate a position for yourself won't work. It's a yes or no situation, all that this debate does is blur the facts.

So Mark should just keep saying "no" and it goes through anyway, and he loses food.uk.

Or he could say "Okay I accept its going to go through, but can I suggest...."


At least the 2nd option gives him a chance of not eating the loss personally, it'll be spread out across everyone else.

 

[Retired_Member38]

If the Independent wasn't on the list, I'd completely agree. But I think it has to be all or none on that 150 list... no way they can make an exception for one of them.

 

[websaway]

I don't blame the people on here for feeling pacified by nominets new proposals, after all that was the intended strategy and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, if it fits, wear it. I just can not feel comfortable myself thinking oh! ok I'm alright jack let's move on. I'm caught up in something whereby my accumulated experience is telling me something is not in the interests of the public and I simply can't ignore it ( probably at my peril, the figures involved are enormous and the entities involved are numerous ).
Unfortunately round table meetings are only going to serve to divide the booty in an agreeable manner.

 

[Stephen]

Food Standards Agency (FSA)

I did come up with some alternative solutions in my email to Lesley. I have tried to contact the Independent several times with no response, maybe i'm cynical, but it wouldn't suprise me if the Independent has already been contacted by nominet with reassurance that they will not lose the new .uk domain, so they don't kick up a fuss.

I would be grateful if anyone who is attending the round table meeting with nominet, could mention the reserved name policy with nominet to get a direct response from them. If anyone would do this on my behalf, please pm me.

I think the only thing I can do is wait to see what the results of the V2 consultation are, and if they go ahead with the .uk release as is and I dont get then .uk, then I would have to take legal action against nominet.

I intend to be there at the first meeting next week and will certainly attempt to raise it, if the format allows.

It would be helpful if you could get a view from the Food Standards Agency (FSA), what they want / prefer as a replacement domain name?

 

[GreyWing]

The crucial thing is that no one has any rights here, like I say, the consultation and ultimately the Nominet board will determine the rights.

In my opinion Nominet have a habit of thinking they decide mate and that the law doesn't apply to them. I guarantee from the stories I have heard over the last few days it will be a judge that decides.

This will go to court, no doubt about it.

 

[websaway]

In my opinion Nominet have a habit of thinking they decide mate and that the law doesn't apply to them. I guarantee from the stories I have heard over the last few days it will be a judge that decides.

This will go to court, no doubt about it.

This can only be bad for the domain industry and the uk namespace.

Confidence motivates.

Uncertainty causes stagnation.

 

[Edwin]

Edwin I have to be honest, I believe that your objective now is to guide this through more or less as is and make sure that if it goes through nothing changes which will adversely affect you.
If this was not the case you would have updated your site with your current objections and rallied support for a no campaign.
I don't think you can be seen to be doing that because Nominet have more or less met your personal demands.

What a load of tosh.

If I was happy for it to go ahead, I wouldn't need to say or do anything at all. The consensus opinion is that it's going to happen (that's what I believe as well) so it would be the easiest thing in the world to pull out a deck-chair and a tall cocktail and just wait for stuff to happen.

I am not willing to play the role of being the go-to guy for everyone who can't be bothered to put together a document of their own to say "yep, +1 from me". Not any more. Not after the absurd amount of personal attacks I've been subjected to in the last 10 days because my views don't happen to be in absolute lock-step with others. I have been second, third, fourth, fifth-guessed, and basically accused of lying more times than I can count.

So I will do my bit. I will attend the Roundtable next week (I can't make both meetings but at least I'll get to one). I will submit my consultation response - and I will probably publish it on the website as well so that others can draw from it if they like (as they can from my V1 document - most of the material remains just as valid now as then). If I see inaccuracies in the press, I will pounce and comment.

But I'm not going to man the barricades for everyone else. Not the second time around. It is tiring. It is depressing. It's not worth it.

Find your own champion, or do the heavy lifting yourself.

 

[Edwin]

The majority of people on here are currently looking to guide v2 through in the best way that causes least harm to themselves, myself included in this. For example if nominet decided to reserve maps.uk or a premium name which someone else on here owned which they had plans for, they would soon change their tune, and wouldn't be calling it collateral damage.

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me determined not to be the one taking all the flak this time around. What gives you the right to argue a general issue by making it personal?

 

[Edwin]

It's official - I'm done with this issue on Acorn.

You can meet me at the round table meeting if you like. I'll also post a link if I publish my consultation response and/or additional support material.

But I'm not going to waste the next 60 days of my life taking abuse day in, day out when I've already done a damn sight more to affect the process in our collective favour than 99% of the mud slingers ever did.

 

[websaway]

What a load of tosh.

If I was happy for it to go ahead, I wouldn't need to say or do anything at all. The consensus opinion is that it's going to happen (that's what I believe as well) so it would be the easiest thing in the world to pull out a deck-chair and a tall cocktail and just wait for stuff to happen.

I am not willing to play the role of being the go-to guy for everyone who can't be bothered to put together a document of their own to say "yep, +1 from me". Not any more. Not after the absurd amount of personal attacks I've been subjected to in the last 10 days because my views don't happen to be in absolute lock-step with others. I have been second, third, fourth, fifth-guessed, and basically accused of lying more times than I can count.

So I will do my bit. I will attend the Roundtable next week (I can't make both meetings but at least I'll get to one). I will submit my consultation response - and I will probably publish it on the website as well so that others can draw from it if they like (as they can from my V1 document - most of the material remains just as valid now as then). If I see inaccuracies in the press, I will pounce and comment.

But I'm not going to man the barricades for everyone else. Not the second time around. It is tiring. It is depressing. It's not worth it.

Find your own champion, or do the heavy lifting yourself.

That's understandable, given the situation.