.uk V2.0 Questions to Nominet & their Answers

[Edwin]

Surely buying a domain name that's in line for .uk is just business common sense? I don't see it as any kind of "sharp" business practice. Bit of an odd thing to say on a forum that's primarily devoted to selling domain names.

Or do you mean, taking advantage of the fact that the owner doesn't yet know about the V2 consultation? In that case, I can see how they'd be a bit miffed, but it's no different from any other business transaction where there is an "information gap" between one party and the other (which happens all the time, literally day in, day out, in the real world)

 

[Retired_Member38]

This is another argument altogether, but I wonder how far people are willing to push this 'information gap' before it changes from smart business sense, to trying to rip someone off or take advantage.

There are a lot of 'i want to buy your domain' emails flying around right now, and they all stink of dishonesty

 

[websaway]

How reliable are all registration dates ?
can they be changed by nominet to suit?

 

[Stephen]

raise awareness

This is another argument altogether, but I wonder how far people are willing to push this 'information gap' before it changes from smart business sense, to trying to rip someone off or take advantage.

As different potential ownership of a .co.uk and .uk for commercial purposes, to me could become a big issue, if the take up for whatever reasons was not good.

It seems it's enough that Nominet heard the 1,000 informed views at the last consultation that is was important that the .co.uk (and some argue the .org.uk etc.) get the first rights to the .uk.

But they are missing the point that there are over 10,000,000 UK domains and I see it as Nominet's job to protect all of those.

So I find Nominet's unwillingness to engage in constructive suggestions, on how to raise awareness, if the .uk goes ahead as bewildering.

 

[Edwin]

It's pretty much infeasible to get feedback from several million people about a subject that 99.5%+ barely understand or don't understand at all. Talk about information gaps! There's so much wild speculation and disinformation flying around even on Acorn that it's easy to see that opening the floodgates to a tidal wave of "opinions" from the wider registrant base - most of which will by definition be ill-informed or out-and-out-wrong - is a recipe for stagnation and chaos.

We forget very easily just how strange and esoteric the whole "domain thing" is to the average individual or small business owner - how can they possibly be expected to absorb all the nuances of a subject so complex that we're up to 5,540 posts about it already in a venue that boasts the highest concentration of subject matter experts on the planet??

Remember too that it is perfectly possible to end up with a situation in which a large majority of people are completely wrong about something through lack of adequate understanding. Think flat Earth, Earth-centric universe, etc. - concepts that pretty much EVERYONE believed in yet were absolutely 100% wrong.

In other words, it's important to qualify the "level of knowledge" of respondents, not just the raw numbers in support of a particular POV. Note that I made this point during the V1 consultation too, because there was a lot of commentary floating around that was out-and-out wrong, but where the authors didn't have the depth of knowledge to know that they were wrong. My argument was/is that if from your comments you clearly have no idea at all what you're talking about, your opinion is worth exactly NOTHING AT ALL.

(That was particularly evident with respect to the security proposals, where people who had no security knowledge, background or understanding were wading into the discussion with totally unworkable ideas BECAUSE they had no security knowledge, background or understanding.)

 

[julian]

Sorry, I can't help myself in saying this but why do we have to keep asking this retarded question - it's pretty obvious what the benefits are.

I'm cringing at this going to Nominet, in the way it's kind of representing the views of people here.

To start of I have listed some questions for Nominet to answer:

1. what are the benefits of .uk?

 

[Sound]

This is another argument altogether, but I wonder how far people are willing to push this 'information gap' before it changes from smart business sense, to trying to rip someone off or take advantage.

There are a lot of 'i want to buy your domain' emails flying around right now, and they all stink of dishonesty

There are a lot of people on this forum who have happily sold domains to end users for good money in the last six months without telling them of Nominets plans for the launch of .uk

The very same people are now complaining about things being unfair but will be first in line to hoover up all the prime domains when .uk is launched and resale them to the business that missed out.

 

[Stephen]

what are the benefits of .uk?

Sorry, I can't help myself in saying this but why do we have to keep asking this retarded question - it's pretty obvious what the benefits are.

I'm cringing at this going to Nominet, in the way it's kind of representing the views of people here.

Can you please elaborate "what are the benefits of .uk?" for the record.

 

[Murray]

There are a lot of 'i want to buy your domain' emails flying around right now, and they all stink of dishonesty

I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

People are trying to take advantage of a situation nominet are creating, if people are angry after they should be angry at nominet, not people playing the game.

 

[websaway]

Can you please elaborate "what are the benefits of .uk?" for the record.

I actually believe there are only two questions to be asked.

What's the benefit ?
What's the cost ?

 

[Stephen]

Past comments (adjusted)

It's pretty much infeasible to get feedback from several million people about a subject that 99.5%+ barely understand or don't understand at all. Talk about information gaps! There's so much wild speculation and disinformation flying around even on Acorn that it's easy to see that opening the floodgates to a tidal wave of "opinions" from the wider registrant base - most of which will by definition be ill-informed or out-and-out-wrong - is a recipe for stagnation and chaos.

We forget very easily just how strange and esoteric the whole "domain thing" is to the average individual or small business owner - how can they possibly be expected to absorb all the nuances of a subject so complex that we're up to 5,540 posts about it already in a venue that boasts the highest concentration of subject matter experts on the planet??

Remember too that it is perfectly possible to end up with a situation in which a large majority of people are completely wrong about something through lack of adequate understanding. Think flat Earth, Earth-centric universe, etc. - concepts that pretty much EVERYONE believed in yet were absolutely 100% wrong.

In other words, it's important to qualify the "level of knowledge" of respondents, not just the raw numbers in support of a particular POV. Note that I made this point during the V1 consultation too, because there was a lot of commentary floating around that was out-and-out wrong, but where the authors didn't have the depth of knowledge to know that they were wrong. My argument was/is that if from your comments you clearly have no idea at all what you're talking about, your opinion is worth exactly NOTHING AT ALL......

Businesses aren't raising a fuss because by and large they remain 100% oblivious to the issue.

Those that do miraculously become aware (e.g. during the Nominet face-to-face consultations, in comments to news articles etc.) and take the time to REALLY understand ALL the ramifications (a tiny subset) are, I'd say, at least 90% opposed to .uk if they don't get the equivalent .uk (NOMINET - will not release the numbers to know how many that will be).

You're dreaming if you think the mainstream media will pick up on this issue without being prompted again and again and again and again. The length of this thread and the confusion evidenced in it even on what is basically an "industry insider" board shows that this is an issue that simply can't be grasped in a few moments - there's unfortunately no "elevator pitch" that can be made to explain it.

And without that, it won't tickle the braincells of mainstream journalists who are shovelling away relentlessly trying to fill an endless news void (the amount of content newspapers and magazines have to generate is an order of magnitude greater these days now that they all blog, tweet, etc. as well as publish in print and online)

Add to that the absolutely first-rate job Nominet's PR machine has done of burying the main issues under an avalanche of "we have listened" and there's practically zero chance of anyone mainstream noticing the elephant in the room...

 

[julian]

What your fundamentally saying is we'll stick with VHS we don't need to go to DVD (it does the job), or stick with LCD we don't need LED.

You could call it vanity but I think a shorter extension is better for keeping people (companies, investors) interested in the .uk namespace - giving more long term scope - more credibility overseas - besides the fact the extra 3 chars. on mobile/tablet devices is a pain in the arse.

Your probably thinking what a ridiculous reason that is, but I think its a good enough reason.

It might be ok stick with our clunky little extension for a few more years but I think we need to move with times.

I can't see how any .co.uk domain investors could want anything else now, (except the few that seriously lose out of course) other than it being put to bed, move on and let the market recover.

If we could go back in time and decide if it would be .co.uk or .uk from the start I'm sure .UK would be the choice?

Can you please elaborate "what are the benefits of .uk?" for the record.

 

[Stephen]

pros and cons of .uk

What your fundamentally saying is we'll stick with VHS we don't need to go to DVD (it does the job), or stick with LCD we don't need LED.

No I would like to see .uk and I think main benefit is trend.

But I would still like to see all the reasons for .uk aired and if that is the only one, which is abstract then fine.

But others (domainers and non-domainers) may need to see more persuasive benefits before they say "yes" to the .uk as there are negative aspects to .uk however Nominet introduce it.

Some people will way the pros and cons of .uk and then make a decision.

 

[Edwin]

But I would still like to see all the reasons for .uk aired and if that is the only one, which is abstract then fine.

Nominet have provided a number of reasons.

You may not feel they're "good enough" to justify .uk.

And you're perfectly entitled to feel like that.

But it's far too simplistic to say that they've provided no justification when in fact they've provided several pages worth of reasons why in their view there is a need for .uk.

There are reasons aplenty in the press release, and again in the background notes, and again in the intro to the consultation itself, and once again in the text accompanying the consultation form. Oh, and on the initial intro page, and again on the more detailed page with additional information. So that's 6 separate places in which Nominet have provided a series of justifications for .uk.

Can we please therefore put this "there's no reason for .uk" idea to bed once and for all? It's an extremely repetitive, circular discussion, one which blissfully chooses to ignore the fact that Nominet HAS provided reasons.

Here are ALL the relevant documents:

Basic intro: http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/proposals-new-policy-second-level-domain-registrations
Press release: http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/pres...-new-policy-second-level-domain-registrations
Details of the consultation: http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-parti...ussions-and-consultations/registration-second
Consultation document: http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/ConsultationOnSecondLevelDomainRegistrationInUK_4.pdf
Background documents: http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/def...strationInUK–BackgroundAndFurtherDetail_4.pdf
Consultation form: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1276711/Nominet-Consultation-for-registration-at-the-second-level

General comment, for EVERYONE reading this thread: If you've not read all 6 of the documents above attentively, then you are NOT qualified to comment on V2 - period.

 

[GreyWing]

The only thing that is getting repetitive is you jumping from thread to thread trying to shut down people discussing it or asking any questions.

I for one don't feel they have justified it at all, not even close.

 

[Stephen]

What is my agenda?

Finally I got around to checking how my own uk domain portfolio would be effected if .uk went ahead as proposed in V2.0.

Out of 8,000 ish UK domains, I would not be in first place on 275 domains, less than 3%.

The gains of getting some prime .uk from older .org.uk would offset the pain of not have the .uk on the ones I would probably not get.

Although looking quickly at the registered owners of the winning domains my best guess I will get about 50 of those domains by registering an interest, as I don't think they will apply for the .uk for a variety of reasons.

I also believe I would pick up some quality .uk domains in the release period, as I have DAC and can write code, if pushed.

But I really feel for the businesses that don't understand about how important their .UK domain is to their business
and wish Nominet would be more proactive in safeguarding their interests.

V2.0 is much fairer that V1.0 (in my opinion) but it is still not ideal, I hope questions raised on this thread will make Nominet think again and refine their offering.
Plus the questions and answers be provided to a wider audience for them to understand what .uk is all about.

 

[Edwin]

Those that do miraculously become aware (e.g. during the Nominet face-to-face consultations, in comments to news articles etc.) and take the time to REALLY understand ALL the ramifications (a tiny subset) are, I'd say, at least 90% opposed to .uk if they don't get the equivalent .uk (NOMINET - will not release the numbers to know how many that will be).

In my "real world" sample covering over 1,000 businesses in Cambridge, which I posted about in the other thread, over 99% of those businesses would get the matching .uk.

That's the elephant in the room which people seem unwilling to acknowledge: there's an overwhelming likelihood that the vast majority of businesses will in fact be "ok" with .uk because they're going to get the domain anyway.

So you can drag out exceptions until you're blue in the face, but that's exactly what they are: exceptions. Very nearly all regular businesses will be fine. And in the case of the few that won't get their domain, it's because an "externally fair" process (i.e. one which I firmly believe will stand up to impartial scrutiny) gave it to someone else.

 

[Stephen]

business view?

Nominet have provided a number of reasons.

You may not feel they're "good enough" to justify .uk.

And you're perfectly entitled to feel like that.

But it's far too simplistic to say that they've provided no justification when in fact they've provided several pages worth of reasons why in their view there is a need for .uk.

There are reasons aplenty in the press release, and again in the background notes, and again in the intro to the consultation itself, and once again in the text accompanying the consultation form. Oh, and on the initial intro page, and again on the more detailed page with additional information. So that's 6 separate places in which Nominet have provided a series of justifications for .uk.

Can we please therefore put this "there's no reason for .uk" idea to bed once and for all? It's an extremely repetitive, circular discussion, one which blissfully chooses to ignore the fact that Nominet HAS provided reasons.

Here are ALL the relevant documents:

Basic intro: http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/proposals-new-policy-second-level-domain-registrations
Press release: http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/pres...-new-policy-second-level-domain-registrations
Details of the consultation: http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-parti...ussions-and-consultations/registration-second
Consultation document: http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/ConsultationOnSecondLevelDomainRegistrationInUK_4.pdf
Background documents: http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/def...strationInUK–BackgroundAndFurtherDetail_4.pdf
Consultation form: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1276711/Nominet-Consultation-for-registration-at-the-second-level

General comment, for EVERYONE reading this thread: If you've not read all 6 of the documents above attentively, then you are NOT qualified to comment on V2 - period.

Thanks for the links and your opinion.

I'm sold on the .uk on a trend case alone, so my threshold is low.

The starting point for many seems to be they cannot see the benefits of .uk,
I'm trying to facilitate a thread were those benefits and reasons are laid out in a simple manor, as you did with V1 and your "pros /cons".

Many asked for an economic study on the impact of the .uk in version 1, V2.0 may be better for most domainers (including myself)
but if .uk is not proved good enough for business, it will not get introduced. that assumes businesses know about .uk V2.0.

 

[websaway]

I actually believe there are only two questions to be asked.

What's the benefit ?
What's the cost ?

Edwin

We all know why they want it.

I'm asking them to justify the introduction by explaining the benefit to the consumer. ( it doesn't expand the namespace )

There are lots of things desirable, but unless they are of sufficient benefit to justify the cost then they are open to scrutiny.

You are clearly arguing their corner whilst saying you are not in favour of their proposal, it's contradictory.

 

[GreyWing]

So you can drag out exceptions until you're blue in the face, but that's exactly what they are: exceptions.

You can ignore those exceptions until you are blue in the face as well. We spotted a Goliath of a victim today that will have massive implications for people in the UK, not just branding but security issues. This victim won't go quietly either, they have hundreds of thousands of users on this name if not over a million.