Stolen domain!

[golddiggerguy]

EDWIN

Given that Domain Monster have hundreds of thousands of domains under management (millions?) and are spending widely on advertising (e.g. sponsors of the recent Meet Domainers show in Manchester) what conceivable reason could there be for them to DELIBERATELY cheat somebody out of ONE domain? That makes no commercial sense, whatever way you look at it...

I do Agree and can only guess (for example) that for an individual working for the company, it maybe worth while to "DELIBERATELY" cheat somebody out of "ONE" domain. Just a thought now you pointed out DM wouldn't AS A COMPANY even think of a FIX.

1. FACT the domain was registered to me.
2. FACT the chances of 2 people booking a slot together for the same domain at a 100th of a second apart Very very very very remote
3. FACT to change details on a domain in my account is illegal without my consent

Any more FACTS people?

After thought : Wish I got this much attention when selling domains!!

 

[grantw]

As much as I like DM and still use I was concerned one time when they renewed one of my domains when it was suspended because they had a new owner lined up.

Even though i was letting it drop I felt it was underhand and a conflict of interest in the the domain dropping process.

According to DM all registrars "take first pick" and Nom say it is down to T&C.

Was this an official response from Nominet in writing?

Grant

 

[stender]

They'll just blame some helpdesk muppet of acting without authority and say they have been reprimanded.

 

[rob]

They are aware of this thread, and will be on here at somepoint....

 

[Retired_member41]

Just call the police. Someone has at some point stated that they are or acting on behalf of the registrant which is not the case.

Don't just accept your domain back and think phew.

You are guaranteed to get your domain back so please do something to make sure it doesn't happen again to anyone else.

If you want I'll mention it to the person dealing with my case.

It's not the £90 with me it's more the principle.

 

[golddiggerguy]

In life I'm the good guy and don't like situations like this TBH.

Started a poll for multiple options - What do you agree with?

I assume DM will start listing T&C when they post here, which will open a lot of messy cans of worms in my eyes!

Just another update and hope someone can tell me - When did it turn into suspended mode - I made the booking on the 20/07/2010 at around 21:36 which then dropped on the 16th September

 

[retired_member12]

There should be a poll option there which says "Nominet should close this loophole", because clearly there is one. Once a registrant name is set against a domain, only contemporaneous proof should be allowed to change the owner, and only via Nominet or the owner themselves, or a Court order.

As an aside, it's piss poor to see golddiggerguy and azooza doing much of the running around.

 

[dragon]

pm sent....................

 

[fish]

I assume DM will start listing T&C when they post here, which will open a lot of messy cans of worms in my eyes!

well that's as maybe but they clearly state on their website (point 3)


Five reasons we will secure your domain:
• 1. Our success rate is second to none
• 2. We only charge when we succeed!
• 3. We only take one back order per domain
• 4. We don't auction your domain; its exclusively for you!
• 5. Our fee is the same, no matter how valuable the domain


& their backorder t&c has mention the agreement as per whois (5.1.4.)

BACK ORDERS
5.1. By placing a Back Order You acknowledge and agree that:
5.1.1. We have made no representations or warranties to You that We will be able to register Your Back Order requested Domain Name;
5.1.2. You will not hold Us liable in any way whatsoever if We are unable to register Your Back Order requested Domain Name;
5.1.3. the Back Order Fees are applicable to You and subject to clause 10.5, will not be refunded if We are unable to register Your Back Order requested Domain Name ; and
5.1.4. Your Back Order is only valid for the period which commences from the date that Your Back Order request is accepted by Us and terminates on the Expiration Date of Your Back Order requested Domain Name as set out in the WHOIS search result from http://www.domainmonster.com/whois/ as at the date Your Back Order request is made.

 

[domainmonster_m]

Hi All

I want to offer the balanced view from our side on this. I was made aware of this one and have since listened to the call logs and discussed with those involved today.

This issue here is very simple (Allbeit frustrating). There is nothing underhand or devious. There is no alternate story here. Many of you guys use us and one would hope the loyal fair service we've consistently provided speaks for something here.

Essentially, as pointed out, two back orders came into our system within a very short time frame. This is techically possible because the backorder isn't blocked from lookup until checked out. I'm not sure it was within 100ms, but it was within the time it took to check out. Our system unfortunately doesn't cater for this (And probably should). That said, out of 200K odd backorders on our platform we've never seen that before and don't have another instance like it (We've now checked!).

When the domain was then snapped, the domain didn't allocate because of these two orders so was manually reviewed. The domain WAS then correctly allocated and billed to the correct account (The current owner). They placed their order first, albeit within a short time frame of the other, so the domain was rightly theirs.

However, it WASN'T allocated to the correct contact. Like I say, this was done manually due to the issue of two orders, hence the 2nd orders data was showing up in the whois. This was our mistake - a human mistake.

I'm embarrassed to say, we didn't even know the wrong whois data was on the domain and most importantly we didn't change ANY admin email address's or ever fix this up. The first we knew of this was today following our investigation with Nominet too.

It seems the correct owner did realise (And I stress correct as he placed his order with us first fair and square) and clearly used Nominet's system to fix things up recognising we've done something wrong - without saying another word.

Thats basically it guys. Nothing underhand, nothing devious. A very unfortunate and frustrating circumstance for all, not least the gentleman on this forum.

Matt
CEO
Domainmonster.com

 

[domainmonster_m]

I assume DM will start listing T&C when they post here, which will open a lot of messy cans of worms in my eyes!

I think that's a little unfair. You spoke at length with a number of our agents at various levels today and not once did anyone quote terms.

They took the issue seriously, they escalated appropriately (And fast!!) and were transparent with the report to you by return. I fully understand your frustration, but the fact remains this was a fair allocation based upon the first order, allbeit with a mistake to complicate things on our part per my prior post.

Matt
CEO
Domainmonster.com

 

[GreyWing]

That's fair enough Matt, from you what you have said and no reason to doubt you it all adds up.

Am I right in thinking that the email was changed by the current owner then and transferred to himself, as it was allocated to him in the DM control panel and at no point did you have any knowledge of it or intervene.

If so then it is them that has some explaining to do and not DM.

 

[fish]

from a previous DM post in this thread:

It firmly is only one backorder per name

and as stated on your website "We only take one back order per domain"

and on your post:

Essentially, as pointed out, two back orders came into our system within a very short time frame. This is techically possible because the backorder isn't blocked from lookup until checked out.

not quite true that you only accept one back order per domain is it?

 

[GreyWing]

You think it's fair enough that either Domain Monster or their system allowed a domain to be transferred from the legal registrant without their authorisation?

Yep it happens everyday,

How do they who is whois registered with Nom. It's the same as every registrar, just because a domain is in someone's control panel it doesn't mean that they are registered via Nom.

It is partly Nom's fault for allowing the control panel owner the ability to change the admin email.

If DM's system allocated the domain name to the wrong persons control panel or visa versa then that is a mistake and an error. The mnost serious offence in all this is who changed the Nom email address and sent themselves a transfer email claiming to be the owner.

That's where the biggest part of the blame is and if DM had a hand in that, then it is truely shocking, if they didn't then you can't hold them to blame for the theft of it.

 

[domainmonster_m]

Am I right in thinking that the email was changed by the current owner then and transferred to himself, as it was allocated to him in the DM control panel and at no point did you have any knowledge of it or intervene.

Yes, you are correct, we didn't interfere in anyway. We unfortunately didn't know until today. There is clearly an angle to be had here with the current owner via Nominet re the change if desired.

That said, I do stress that the current owner is actually the correct owner in terms of who placed the order first and who won the snap, albeit accepted that we effectively registered the domain to the wrong contact per explanation.

If anyone therefore has a case to sue to us, its probably the correct and current owner. I'm sure we will therefore hear from him next should the 2nd customer be successful in strong arming the domain into his custody on the basis of our mistake.

 

[domainmonster_m]

not quite true that you only accept one back order per domain is it?

Accepted. Well I thought it was true until today! Its a pretty freak occurrence when the same domain gets booked on back order within such a short time frame. Per my explanation, we've not had one like this before and we don't have another duplicate in 200K active back orders that we currently have (The team checked following this incident today). We will of course now ensure that technically this can't happen again, no matter how unlikely an event.

 

[GreyWing]

That said, I do stress that the current owner is actually the correct owner in terms of who placed the order first and who won the snap, albeit accepted that we effectively registered the domain to the wrong contact per explanation.

Sorry mate couldn't possibly disagree with you more, once it got registered then for me and most people on here it is considered their's. Nobody should interfere in that apart from Nominet.

The current owner should be complaining and taking action against you if that is the case and their wish, not the person whose name it was in.

That's my view anyway and I think you'll find most people's on here. Because if that was not the case, when is a name actually oursa through your system, for example what period of time do you consider the name to be with the right owner, 10 minutes, 10 hours, 10 days?

What you are effectively saying is that after any amount of time, DM can investigate and find a previous service applicant to the service which means you can take the name from the current owner.

 

[Retired_member41]

I'm not a fan of DM anymore after my dealings last week, but if they can show it in their logs, then its down to the new owner.

Did the new owner transfer this to themselves after DM told them, or was it off their own back?

Nominet once sent me a successful code saying I had registered a domain, only to find out it was someone elses, they said it could not happen, but it was in my logs, so it can happen to the best of them.

can someone post the domain in question? I hope oh I hope the registrant begins with a J

 

[grantw]

I've had my own tag for too long now and I'm obviously naive. Are you saying that if I had a domain registered with someone like Domain Monster and my domain inadvertently turned up in someone else's control panel, that they could then change my details at Nominet and transfer the domain away?

Yes in a way, they could change the admin email address from the DM control panel which would then give them access to the domains Nominet account and give them total control over it to transfer or whatever.

Grant

 

[domainmonster_m]

Sorry mate couldn't possibly disagree with you more, once it got registered then for me and most people on here it is considered their's. Nobody should interfere in that apart from Nominet.

The current owner should be complaining and taking action against you if that is the case and their wish, not the person whose name it was in.

That's my view anyway and I think you'll find most people's on here. Because if that was not the case, when is a name actually oursa through your system, for example what period of time do you consider the name to be with the right owner, 10 minutes, 10 hours, 10 days?

What you are effectively saying is that after any amount of time, DM can investigate and find a previous service applicant to the service which means you can take the name from the current owner.

I think we are on the same page. No I don't think we or anyone for that matter should retain a perpetual right to reverse a registration - at the very least not without correct adjudication.

I'm highlighting it was our mistake and we have/will continue to own up to that in any litigation that could result from Nominet or a court should either of them seek our course events from which to draw their conclusion. Its not our place to conclude, we wouldn't and haven't; but we did make the contact mistake and unfortunately for all, it was a mistake.