Sign to bring back capital punishment

[BREWSTERS]

Again, recorded, police system has improved. More crimes being reported != more crimes, nor does that directly correlate to capital punishment whatsoever.

So you're saying that a lot of murders used to go unreported??????????????

Re-read the post.

Have - still not making sense.

I am trying to have a proper debate, not spout facts without backing them up or ignoring your points because I don't have an answer.

Ashton - how does that equate to saying stuff like 'there's no proof that CP is a deterent'? We had less crime when we had it. You can't back up your claim...full stop!

Capital Punishment is revenge. You kill someone, you get killed. Also called retribution, retaliation, vengeance or "payback"

Does imprisonment differ as a notion than community service? Is one different from the other or are they both forms of punishment? So it is with CP. Only you are putting an emotional slant on it.

This is a punitive measure - it is not aimed to improve the human condition, it is merely aimed to kill another human being.

No. it is aimed at reducing similar cases from occuring.

How can you teach that killing is wrong by killing?

How can you NOT? I mean, really? If you say to someone "if you steal £1m, we'll fine you £500k" how many more thefts do you think there'd be?

Most people I have spoken to choose to support capital punishment because of an emotional response evoked by the criminals actions, for example - who wouldn't be enraged by a person who kills children. That is why I see it and it's support as highly emotionally based. Its people using their heart, not their head.

These people you've spoken to have said that, have they? That their opinions are based soley on their emotions and that they don't use their brains to form their opinions? That's correct is it? Give me a break....

I prefer to use my head and look at all the options and in my conclusion, life imprisonment is far superior to capital punishment.

Strange that. You claim that you're only using your head but it is you who brought the notion of emotion into the debate, and like I've said, it has no place in trying to decide suitable punishment.

It stands to reason, but that doesn't make it true, there is no evidence supporting that the death penalty is a larger deterrent than lifetime imprisonment.

WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FACT THAT WHEN WE HAD CP, THERE WERE FEWER MURDERS?
I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE, BUT I'LL BET A £ TO A PINCH OF SHIT THAT THERE WEREN'T MANY UNREPORTED MURDERS BACK WHEN THE UK HAD CP.
IGNORING THE SIMPLE COLD LOGIC OF THAT WILL NOT MAKE IT GO AWAY, AND FOR ANYONE ELSE WHO MAY STILL BE READING, I'M SURE THEY ARE WONDERING WHY YOU CONTINUALLY DISREGARD THIS FACT.

There is also no evidence supporting that lifetime imprisonment is a higher deterrent than the death penalty.

Well, there can't be can there.

Its something you come to expect - I am also pretty public about my age on this forum. Anyway, lets just stick to the debate at hand.

Well it's news to me - just how old are you? You don't have to answer if you don't want.

Incidently, if it's something other people have picked up on, maybe you should be thinking there's a reason?

Crime rate has raised at a constant since before and after capital punishment was abolished. There is no correlation between capital punishment abolition and increased crime.


Again, no evidence of it as a deterrent, please actually stick to fact.

I have - only you won't acknowledge it.

Without the 'death row' and appeal process, far more executions of innocents would happen.

Once again, fewer innocent people would die.

What's better; 1 innocent person being killed, or 2? Hard choice, but when all is said and done, there's no choice at all is there?

Im growing tired of you spouting crap like 'capital punishment is a proven deterrent' there is no scientific proof of this whatsoever, nor is there proof that it isn't.

Ashton, sweetheart...more murders in the UK before, or after CP was abolished?

Yes or no? It's a simple question.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Ashton, re your post #41 - almost all but the last 2 or 3 sentences of that quote, contradict your opinion; do you realise that?

The general gist is that the States where they actually follow through on more death penalties, it is considered a greater deterent. In other words, it's less effective as a deterent if they don't actually kill those on death row.

What does that tell us?

 

[Ashton]

The problem is that most research of this kind is funded by groups and/or companies with an agenda so you have to take most (not all) with a pinch of salt.

Exactly - The fact is that no report factually and scientifically states that capital punishment deters criminals more than lifetime imprisonment.

I am not saying that lifetime imprisonment is a bigger deterrent - there are no reports to prove that either, I am just saying that the argument of capital punishment is invalid until proven.

So you're saying that a lot of murders used to go unreported??????????????

Ashton - how does that equate to saying stuff like 'there's no proof that CP is a deterent'? We had less crime when we had it. You can't back up your claim...full stop!

No. it is aimed at reducing similar cases from occuring.

WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FACT THAT WHEN WE HAD CP, THERE WERE FEWER MURDERS?
I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE, BUT I'LL BET A £ TO A PINCH OF SHIT THAT THERE WEREN'T MANY UNREPORTED MURDERS BACK WHEN THE UK HAD CP.
IGNORING THE SIMPLE COLD LOGIC OF THAT WILL NOT MAKE IT GO AWAY, AND FOR ANYONE ELSE WHO MAY STILL BE READING, I'M SURE THEY ARE WONDERING WHY YOU CONTINUALLY DISREGARD THIS FACT.

Blah blah blah, I haven't ignored this fact, you're just ignoring my counter-argument.

I have said, and I will repeat myself - once more for your simple mind

Crime has risen at a constant rate since before we abolished capital punishment and after - there is no link that capital punishment being abolished has increased crime.

Let me put this simply for you, the same rate that crime raised during capital punishment, continued after capital punishment - with no clear increase.

Stop repeating the same argument when I have countered it, pretending I haven't and trying to mock me

How can you NOT? I mean, really? If you say to someone "if you steal £1m, we'll fine you £500k" how many more thefts do you think there'd be?

That is completely separate - stating sensationalist crap like that is pointless to this debate.

These people you've spoken to have said that, have they? That their opinions are based soley on their emotions and that they don't use their brains to form their opinions? That's correct is it? Give me a break....

No, I spoke to some people about it today and yesterday - people I work with and know. I asked for their opinions and we discussed it. I asked what those opinions stemmed from and it was mostly emotional based - that doesn't mean they didn't use there heads, it just means that a large base of there judgement stemmed from hate towards murderers / rapists / pedo's

Incidently, if it's something other people have picked up on, maybe you should be thinking there's a reason?

Lol, another pathetic comment, grow up.

Ashton, sweetheart...more murders in the UK before, or after CP was abolished?

Yes or no? It's a simple question.

That's not even a yes or no question lol...

As I have stated - the murder count has rose consistently and showed no large rise when capital punishment was abolished - just the same steady rise it always has.

You're just proving to everyone the twat we all thought you to be. What a great father that makes jokes out of the deaths of thousands of people. Your poor kids.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Exactly - The fact is that no report factually and scientifically states that capital punishment deters criminals more than lifetime imprisonment.

I am not saying that lifetime imprisonment is a bigger deterrent - there are no reports to prove that either, I am just saying that the argument of capital punishment is invalid until proven.



Blah blah blah, I haven't ignored this fact, you're just ignoring my counter-argument.

I have said, and I will repeat myself - once more for your simple mind

Crime has risen at a constant rate since before we abolished capital punishment and after - there is no link that capital punishment being abolished has increased crime.

Let me put this simply for you, the same rate that crime raised during capital punishment, continued after capital punishment - with no clear increase.

Stop repeating the same argument when I have countered it, pretending I haven't and trying to mock me



That is completely separate - stating sensationalist crap like that is pointless to this debate.



No, I spoke to some people about it today and yesterday - people I work with and know. I asked for their opinions and we discussed it. I asked what those opinions stemmed from and it was mostly emotional based - that doesn't mean they didn't use there heads, it just means that a large base of there judgement stemmed from hate towards murderers / rapists / pedo's



Lol, another pathetic comment, grow up.

That's not even a yes or no question lol...

Of course it is! Ask your English teacher when you go back after the holidays.

As I have stated - the murder count has rose consistently and showed no large rise when capital punishment was abolished - just the same steady rise it always has.

You're just proving to everyone the twat we all thought you to be. What a great father that makes jokes out of the deaths of thousands of people. Your poor kids.

You lost your cool, and with it the debate.

No wonder you kept bringing 'emotion' into it...those hormones play havoc when you're going through puberty.

Finally, (as I can't continue a debate with someone who can't recognise a yes or no question) don't type anything that you wouldn't say to my face - because I assure you, you wouldn't be wanting to say that.

This time I'll put it down to youthful frustration.

 

[Ashton]

Of course it is! Ask your English teacher when you go back after the holidays.

Ashton, sweetheart...more murders in the UK before, or after CP was abolished?

Yes or no? It's a simple question.

Actually the answer to that would be 'before' or 'after' - If I answered yes or no it would be incorrect. Perhaps you should have spent more time in school

You lost your cool, and with it the debate.

You resorted to petty insults first, not to mention you kept repeating yourself, didn't point to any fact. I am pretty sure you lost this debate

No wonder you kept bringing 'emotion' into it...those hormones play havoc when you're going through puberty.

Vengeance is based on emotion, that's where the hate for the killer and the wish for them to suffer the same punishment comes from. Would you wish a rapist to be raped for their punishment?

Finally, (as I can't continue a debate with someone who can't recognise a yes or no question) don't type anything that you wouldn't say to my face - because I assure you, you wouldn't be wanting to say that.

This time I'll put it down to youthful frustration.

Clearly you can't phrase a yes or no question. Also you can be sure I would say all of this to your face. Perhaps you would want to make a joke about the WTC to a load of Americans? Or perhaps to some of my friends who have lost people they love in the ensuing wars? Don't try to act hard on the internet, you're not.

Keep talking down to me, please. Its proving you're as much as an idiot as I and others assumed you to be. Interestingly the most successful and intelligent individuals I have worked with have never questioned my age - even when I was 14 I sold a business to a Chinese firm, they didn't bat an eye about it.

Feel free to have the last quip, I honestly couldn't care less

 

[BREWSTERS]

Don't try to act hard on the internet, you're not.

You don't know me.

 

[boxerdog]

Would you wish a rapist to be raped for their punishment?

uuummm......YES!

 

[Pred]

THIS is the petition that needs signing!
Not that they should ever be let out of prison again to ponce off the state anyway and rob and burn things

I notice theres no threads on the riots
I guess it's because we are all seething about it. I know I am. Sickened to my stomach. Amazed HOW MANY scumbags there are in this country. Shocked by it

 

[retired_member33]

Just had a look at the e-petitions and still cant believe some of them are real

What a joke