Question for Nominet

[Jac]

That is the question - the nail on the head. The s is about to hit the f for some innocent/ uninformed registrant.

"Use of the WHOIS opt-out" is one of the issues scheduled for discussion at tomorrow's PAB meeting in London. I hope to address the concerns raised here.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[retired_member11]

"Use of the WHOIS opt-out" is one of the issues scheduled for discussion at tomorrow's PAB meeting in London. I hope to address the concerns raised here.

Regards
James Conaghan

Please do. Try to impress upon the other pab members just how serious the implications of automatic parking could be. It unfairly exposes registrants to the real possibility of both DRS and independent legal action.

 

[rob]

Please do. Try to impress upon the other pab members just how serious the implications of automatic parking could be. It unfairly exposes registrants to the real possibility of both DRS and independent legal action.

erm, surely a problem with the ISP not Nominet?

You have the choice to use 1&1 or not, you can use different agents to register .uk's.

 

[Jac]

erm, surely a problem with the ISP not Nominet?

You have the choice to use 1&1 or not, you can use different agents to register .uk's.

This is also true... but I'll still ask the questions as the practice of pointing newly registered domain names at a PPC page does seem to put the ordinary non-trading registrant (consumer) in an ambiguous position in terms of the Ts&Cs.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[rob]

This is also true... but I'll still ask the questions as the practice of pointing newly registered domain names at a PPC page does seem to put the ordinary non-trading registrant (consumer) in an ambiguous position in terms of the Ts&Cs.

A fair few ISP's create holding pages saying "this domain was regged by us for a client" etc usually with a link to their services and abit of promo -PPC is slightly different however the principle is the same.

Is this another 'fling mud at nom' session or can we start a new thread on Eurodns / 1&1 plus anyone else who does the above?

 

[Hazel Pegg]

Please do. Try to impress upon the other pab members just how serious the implications of automatic parking could be. It unfairly exposes registrants to the real possibility of both DRS and independent legal action.

But surely if the automatic parking is done by the ISP and not the registrant then the registrant has a good defence in any DRS and the ISP is the entity at risk?

But then nothing is ever that simple and I've probably missed a catch or three.

Hazel

 

[Beasty]

But surely if the automatic parking is done by the ISP and not the registrant then the registrant has a good defence in any DRS and the ISP is the entity at risk?

But then nothing is ever that simple and I've probably missed a catch or three.

Hazel

True - but that requires the registrant to be in a position to understand what's happening and to file an accurate response within 15 days - which may be beyond many lay consumers.

Also, if it is used as grounds to publish personal data, it could (off the top of my head) expose Nominet to an allegation of breaching the Data Protection Act - given that the regsitrant may presumably be unaware of either the parking or the change in their DPA status, if no formal DRS complaint made.

 

[retired_member11]

The non-trading registrant is a lamb to the slaughter.

 

[retired_member12]

Is there financial gain for the registrant if default ISP based PPC parking has occured? No.
However, to clarify the matter, surely Nominet must shoulder some responsibility by ensuring the TAG holders & ISP's include opt outs at the time of registration. Without it, there is nothing to stop this, or a non PPC holding page suddenly turning into a PPC page without the registrant's knowledge.

 

[olebean]

Also, if it is used as grounds to publish personal data, it could (off the top of my head) expose Nominet to an allegation of breaching the Data Protection Act - given that the regsitrant may presumably be unaware of either the parking or the change in their DPA status, if no formal DRS complaint made.

That issue has been raised with nominet..

 

[olebean]

Is there financial gain for the registrant if default ISP based PPC parking has occured? No.
However, to clarify the matter, surely Nominet must shoulder some responsibility by ensuring the TAG holders & ISP's include opt outs at the time of registration. Without it, there is nothing to stop this, or a non PPC holding page suddenly turning into a PPC page without the registrant's knowledge.

see below

"The WHOIS opt out that we provide is for consumers only and as your domain name is being used for trading purposes this means that you are not
eligible to opt out of the WHOIS. If you were to change your usage of the
domain name (i.e. not offer it for sale etc) then you would be eligible to
use the opt out service. As such * ** *** currently able to opt you out
of the WHOIS service. *** terms and conditions make this clear and by
holding a .uk domain name you have agreed to these terms."

 

[retired_member12]

Sorry, i'm not being clear enough. I'm not referring to the Whois opt-opt, but rather a PPC parking opt-out.

 

[olebean]

Sorry, i'm not being clear enough. I'm not referring to the Whois opt-opt, but rather a PPC parking opt-out.

vicariously liable

Terms associate with business... by definition no domain that is registered that has a "company" holding page can opt out of who-is......

In my view is it near impossible to opt out

 

[retired_member11]

see below

"The WHOIS opt out that we provide is for consumers only and as your domain name is being used for trading purposes this means that you are not
eligible to opt out of the WHOIS. If you were to change your usage of the
domain name (i.e. not offer it for sale etc) then you would be eligible to
use the opt out service. As such * ** *** currently able to opt you out
of the WHOIS service. *** terms and conditions make this clear and by
holding a .uk domain name you have agreed to these terms."

One can be a trading registrant, but it doesn't follow that one is happy to have an ISP potentially compromise a registration by auto parking and setting keywords that might infringe Rights held by another party vis-a-vis DRS.

WHOIS opt out is for the address, isn't it? How is that relevant to this auto parking practice?

 

[olebean]

One can be a trading registrant, but it doesn't follow that one is happy to have an ISP potentially compromise a registration by auto parking and setting keywords that might infringe Rights held by another party vis-a-vis DRS.

WHOIS opt out is for the address, isn't it? How is that relevant to this auto parking practice?

The issue of compromise is the same and as beasty points out the consequence for a customer maybe considered greater than that of a trading individual due to terms suggesting that a customer cannot opt out

 

[retired_member12]

vicariously liable

Terms associate with business... by definition no domain that is registered that has a "company" holding page can opt out of who-is......

In my view is it near impossible to opt out

What??

Your saying that it is near impossible to opt out of having a registered domain pointing to a default PPC holding page? Olebean, are you not seeing the point i'm making? I'll say it again, i'm not talking about the WHOIS opt-out, i'm talking about an opt-out for a DEFAULT PPC HOLDING PAGE!

 

[sneezycheese]

I'll say it again, i'm not talking about the WHOIS opt-out, i'm talking about an opt-out for a DEFAULT PPC HOLDING PAGE!

...1&1 do alow the option to 'opt-out', but most will not because;

a) Most people will not realise that Nominet's rather Neanderthal aproach to consumers privacy and the DPA will be a problem (personally I don't think Nominet recognises the word 'consumer').

b) They wont be bothered - and why should they?

c) They wont know that the option to opt-out is there!!!

...The relevant bit from a 1&1 email:

If you do not wish to use this service, you can deactivate the function by directly accessing the Empty Pages Parking section in the Domains Overview of your 1&1 Control Panel and Select No to deactivate the automatic content provider for websites not yet developed.

...also:

Parking "Error Pages" and Domains "Under Construction"

Usually if a requested page is not found by a server, a page with the message "Error 404 page not found" or similar is displayed. Likewise, when a website not yet developed is accessed, a page reading "Under Construction" or "Page not found" is displayed. To prevent your visitors from receiving these annoying messages, a temporary placeholder or "parking" page with ads will now be displayed automatically on websites not yet set up.

 

[retired_member11]

This bit from 1&1. They say 'annoying'. Annoying to whom? Annoying to 1&1 because it stops them from making money from someone elses domain registration. This wording isn't necessarily in the best interests of the registrant.

 

[Jay Daley]

a) Most people will not realise that Nominet's rather Neanderthal aproach to consumers privacy and the DPA will be a problem (personally I don't think Nominet recognises the word 'consumer').

I have no idea how a discussion about PPC opt-out got onto the subject of our WHOIS, but nevertheless...

Our opt-out has been fully consulted with the Information Commissioner and is regarded as a model approach to striking a balance between the requirements of the whole community. However I doubt people who do PPC parking for their customers base their opt-out terms on our WHOIS.

 

[sneezycheese]

I have no idea how a discussion about PPC opt-out got onto the subject of our WHOIS, but nevertheless...

Our opt-out has been fully consulted with the Information Commissioner and is regarded as a model approach to striking a balance between the requirements of the whole community. However I doubt people who do PPC parking for their customers base their opt-out terms on our WHOIS.

...Err, Jay you've totally missed the point mate. I suggest you have another read of what I and others have said in the last day or so on this thread.