Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[Murray]

Here is another question, will .uk price businesses out?

I will use a random made up example using a nice word, banana.

Say a domainer owns the org.uk and registered it in 2006, they get the .uk

Another domainer owns the co.uk and caught it after 2006.

So now a new business comes along who want to brand as "Banana" have to fork out for the co.uk from one domainer and again for the .uk from another..

Could get to be very expensive and discouraging for buyers and put them off investing in .uk's all together.

 

[GreyWing]

There will be winners and losers regardless of the outcome of .uk but to think for one second that whichever way it is released that it needs to be "fair" to Joe Bloggs, is not living in the real world. As long as domainers exist, Joe Bloggs is majority irrelevant in the release process, as domainers will always find a way to capitalise on them as it is how we make a living. Like it or not, that is a fact.

But there are no winners or losers with a pairing option, I know Edwin is dead set against it but nobody has shown me any example of a domain owner that would lose out. Domainers wouldn't have a chance to cybersquatt.

I don't think Nominet will look very good when people start going to their MP's about this in 2-3 years time. Members don't scare Nominet, Public don't scare Nominet but the political class does and the political class would take the flak, which they would pass onto a scapegoat at Nom, they know this at Nom.

I just think it has too much potential to blow up too big to allow it to happen like this. I don't think it will happen.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Here is another question, will .uk price businesses out?

I will use a random made up example using a nice word, banana.

Say a domainer owns the org.uk and registered it in 2006, they get the .uk

Another domainer owns the co.uk and caught it after 2006.

So now a new business comes along who want to brand as "Banana" have to fork out for the co.uk from one domainer and again for the .uk from another..

Could get to be very expensive and discouraging for buyers and put them off investing in .uk's all together.

It gets messy. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a 1 word generic knowing I had a 6 figure spend ahead of me to attempt to turn it into a brand, unless I could have both the .co.uk and the .uk.

What if you agree sales for both domains, pay and have one pushed and then the other guy backs out? I had one premium .co.uk owner agree to sell me a domain for more than a quarter million £, then back out at the last minute. I would have been absolutely fuming if I had bought an equivalent .uk domain based off of him saying he'd sell me the .co.uk.

So its going to get expensive to even buy domains in the first place. If you're talking 5 figures plus, I can't see any realistic way but to get contracts with both .co.uk and .uk saying they will sell, if the other does. If you don't do it, you're risking ending up with one half of the pair you needed.


It might also be hard to negotiate prices from 2 separate owners in the first place. I would probably be inclined to email them both from the one email and tell them I'd like to pay £x for the pair. They can then discuss between themselves if that total is acceptable, and how they're going to split it between them.

 

[domainseller200]

But there are no winners or losers with a pairing option, I know Edwin is dead set against it but nobody has shown me any example of a domain owner that would lose out. Domainers wouldn't have a chance to cybersquatt.

They will never release it via a pairing option, regardless of yours or Edwins thoughts, as that would prove they only ever done it to make money and nothing else - don't forget one of the reasons they are doing it "To offer more choice", pairing takes away that.

 

[Murray]

What if you agree sales for both domains, pay and have one pushed and then the other guy backs out?.

Good point, what if one will sell and the other will not? then you will probably have to abandon the whole idea depending how the whole dynamic of .uk vs co.uk works out.

 

[Sound]

But there are no winners or losers with a pairing option, I know Edwin is dead set against it but nobody has shown me any example of a domain owner that would lose out. Domainers wouldn't have a chance to cybersquatt.

Nominet Are the losers with the pairing option which is why it will never happen

Nominet are looking to raise more funds and the government are watching from the side lines.

 

[crazihos]

Is there any way they could use grandfather rights but ignore drop dates. That way the first concieved domain would win - be that .co.uk, .org.uk or .me.uk?

I don't know how to check back that far with nominet so no idea who wins or loses with that but it seems to be sensible using the logic that the person who registered the domain when all three options were available is likely to have selected the best extention for the purpose?

 

[Edwin]

Is there any way they could use grandfather rights but ignore drop dates. That way the first concieved domain would win - be that .co.uk, .org.uk or .me.uk?

I don't know how to check back that far with nominet so no idea who wins or loses with that but it seems to be sensible using the locic that the person who registered the domain when all three options were available is likely to have selected the best extention for the purpose?

I imagine that would very quickly have hordes of people up in arms, because the Whois (which is the information of record that most people rely on) would be saying something very different from Nominet.

In the scenario you're outlining, Nominet would basically be forced into saying "Yes, we know what the Whois says, but trust us this domain name that was registered last week is actually sort of 'older' than your 10 year old name. No, you can't verify that independently. Yes, we know that dropping domains were 'deleted' and the Whois dates reset, but that doesn't mean what you thought it meant."

Cue class action lawsuits.

 

[anthony]

Is there any way they could use grandfather rights but ignore drop dates. That way the first concieved domain would win - be that .co.uk, .org.uk or .me.uk?

I don't know how to check back that far with nominet so no idea who wins or loses with that but it seems to be sensible using the logic that the person who registered the domain when all three options were available is likely to have selected the best extention for the purpose?

Remember, a domain name isn't an asset in Nominet's terminology, it's an entry in a database. Once it's dropped, that contractual tie no longer exists, and without a contract, there can be no rights.

 

[Stephen]

.co.uk dominance

Why? Comments will be received from the wider business community and other stakeholders based on the content of V2 i.e. what's in front of them. Or do you really think they're going to go back six months and argue about stuff that's not even on the table any more?

What used to be in V1 is interesting from a historic perspective (the road not taken, etc.) but irrelevant at this point.

Remember, only 5% of comments to V1 came from within the "domainer" community. That's less than 40 people within our industry who took the time to prepare a detailed response. And that's why it's so important to at least try to see how the content of V2 will be perceived by other interest groups, since they will inevitably be supplying the majority of responses.

Just because Nominet say .uk is now not for exclusively business in V2.0
it doesn't make it true
although it is strange how they say .uk is to improve the UK digital economy?
in Nominet .uk version 1 they said it was for business and security - did anybody agree to that! NO!

In a seperate thread of the top 1,000,000 websites by volume, in the list supplied there are 14,052 .co.uk domains which is 93% of the combined .co.uk and .org.uk total on the list.

That shows how important .co.uk is compared to other 3rd level UK tld's.

I can see the .uk being used more for personal emails, blogs and all sorts of things and I don't think it end up as exclusively for business purposes but I don't think that entitles .org.uk and .me.uk owners to take the .uk domains.

 

[Stephen]

1st July?

Have I missed somthing about the 1st July,
being the release date being for V2.0 of the Nominet .uk proposal,
as have not seen anything yet!

Do you think Nominet are still fine tunning it?

 

[Edwin]

Have I missed somthing about the 1st July,
being the release date being for V2.0 of the Nominet .uk proposal,
as have not seen anything yet!

Do you think Nominet are still fine tunning it?

I'm guessing it will come out late afternoon/early evening.

 

[viceroy]

Spoke to them on Friday: 1st July (probably pm as it has to get final approval) for v2 then 60 business (23rd Sept) days to run before replies get consolidated.

 

[max_rk]

Spoke to them on Friday: 1st July (probably pm as it has to get final approval) for v2 then 60 business (23rd Sept) days to run before replies get consolidated.

Nominet running this thigh don’t they! Seems like cutting corners.

 

[namealot]

It gets messy. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a 1 word generic knowing I had a 6 figure spend ahead of me to attempt to turn it into a brand, unless I could have both the .co.uk and the .uk.

What if you agree sales for both domains, pay and have one pushed and then the other guy backs out? I had one premium .co.uk owner agree to sell me a domain for more than a quarter million £, then back out at the last minute. I would have been absolutely fuming if I had bought an equivalent .uk domain based off of him saying he'd sell me the .co.uk.

So its going to get expensive to even buy domains in the first place. If you're talking 5 figures plus, I can't see any realistic way but to get contracts with both .co.uk and .uk saying they will sell, if the other does. If you don't do it, you're risking ending up with one half of the pair you needed.


It might also be hard to negotiate prices from 2 separate owners in the first place. I would probably be inclined to email them both from the one email and tell them I'd like to pay £x for the pair. They can then discuss between themselves if that total is acceptable, and how they're going to split it between them.

Aren’t you deciding which you are going to run with publicity etc wise? Don’t you know which is the better? Or were you going to use both different target audience e.g. hip and cool for young professional and corporate for old which is not achievable with just the one co/uk alone although its not done much com /co,uk would it be more acceptable co.uk / uk
Purchase of one is dependant on purchase of other sort of like a house chain not that complicated really houses sell for millions and it works most of the time

Doesn’t it also depend on how you are archiving traffic what your advertising plan is with regard to losing out to other do you really need both is it much dissimilar to launching without the com ?

E.g. your sending out reps to insurance brokers simply install a app type application or even sending a link to an app people install it on there system little loss to competition there just filling out info doesn’t it depend greatly on the product service etc marketing your doing offering?

 

[GreyWing]

I don't get why these names would be reserved under the proposal http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/GOVUKreserveddomains.pdf

Aren't they just openly admitting that confusion is possible now by reserving these? It might be me being a bit thick again.

If they are admitting that confusion is possible then they are setting precedents for DRS's and courts.

 

[Pred]

I don't get why these names would be reserved under the proposal http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/GOVUKreserveddomains.pdf

Aren't they just openly admitting that confusion is possible now by reserving these? It might be me being a bit thick again.

If they are admitting that confusion is possible then they are setting precedents for DRS's and courts.

well it'll piss off the owners of food/co./uk and the independent newspaper lol
shouldn't laugh

guess nominet have to be seen to look after the government

 

[Skinner]

In the latest this still exists...

A ‘right of first refusal’ would give registrants of existing .uk domain names at the third level (e.g. .co.uk, .me.uk, .org.uk etc) the opportunity to secure the corresponding registration at the second level. In the event of two competing claims, the oldest current, continuous registration(1) would be given priority. The proposal is to run the right of first refusal for a 6 month period from launch.

the etc. sounds like they are allowing ltd/plc/etc to a player.

 

[GreyWing]

What on earth are they thinking?

"If a decision to go ahead is taken, Nominet would notify existing registrants by email, and would run an awareness campaign to ensure that existing registrants have every opportunity to exercise their right of first refusal. Nominet would also offer existing .co.uk, .me.uk and .gov.uk registrants the opportunity to validate and verify their data for a nominal fee. However, this would not be mandatory."

Why not email them about the consultation then and let normal users give their thoughts. Oh yes, that's spam but emailing them telling them about a new product for double the price isn't?

 

[jonbyrne]

In the latest this still exists...



the etc. sounds like they are allowing ltd/plc/etc to a player.

They say this in the document

We propose to grant registrants of existing third level domain names under Nominet’s
management (.co.uk, .org.uk, .me.uk, .ltd.uk, .plc.uk, .sch.uk,) a six month period to exercise a right
of first refusal to register the second level equivalent

So this confirms your thoughts. The .Sch is probably the most interesting as currently the registrations are at the fourth level.