Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[Stephen]

2 letter auction process

I believe the best way to handle the allocation of the 2 letter names is to have a separate "EXCEPTIONS" section in V2 just for them.

In the entire history of the UK namespace, they're the only domains that were never released through the normal process, but at artificially inflated prices (that greatly benefitted Nominet and the Nominet Trust) so Nominet have all the "cover" they need (morally, legally, ethically, anything-else-ly) to draft an exception to cover them as a true "special case", and many would argue (myself included) the obligation to do so.

Keeps things tidy, and the main "allocation process" simple.

Also as I understand the release dates of the different tld's were artifically created to be different, so as to raise more monies for Nominet!

So it was Nominet policy that determined that .me.uk and .org.uk domains were a few days older than the more valuable .co.uk's issued by the auction.

 

[Edwin]

Also as I understand the release dates of the different tld's were artifically created to be different, so as to raise more monies for Nominet!

So it was Nominet policy that determined that .me.uk and .org.uk domains were a few days older than the more valuable .co.uk's issued by the auction.

Yet another justification, if one is needed, for a special "EXCEPTIONS" clause to specifically deal with the 2-letter (and 1-letter) .uk release, based on what happened at the previous auctions.

Nominet created the problem through a special case process, so now they can fix it with another special case.

 

[Edwin]

I still think it is worth noting Nominet rules state re .org.uk's :

and the very next sentence after the one you quoted is

However, we do not forbid applications, and will take no action in respect of registrations that do not comply with the SLD Charters.

You can't pick and choose part of a paragraph and ignore the rest of the SAME paragraph just because it doesn't "fit" your expectations!

As I've said before, I fully acknowledge that many people are uncomfortable with the fact that .org.uk domains have been registered for other-than-non-profit purposes.

However, it's impossible to deny that ALL .org.uk domains are legitimate under Nominet's own "Rules" document. There aren't some that are more legitimate than others, and any attempt to draw a distinction between them at this late stage is revisionism after the fact.

 

[Retired_Member38]

What can you do with the 2 letter domains?

Its obviously unfair to penalise .co.uk owners for having a later reg date due the way they were released. If they are going to do that then I would like to see 2 letter .co.uk owners being able to hand them back to Nominet for a full refund. Though that won't help anyone who's launched a site on them and/or spent money in the background in anticipation of doing so.

Why not let them have a refund if they want one, then auctions of the .uk between .org.uk and .co.uk (maybe .me.uk too).

 

[Edwin]

What can you do with the 2 letter domains?

Its obviously unfair to penalise .co.uk owners for having a later reg date due the way they were released. If they are going to do that then I would like to see 2 letter .co.uk owners being able to hand them back to Nominet for a full refund. Though that won't help anyone who's launched a site on them and/or spent money in the background in anticipation of doing so.

Why not let them have a refund if they want one, then auctions of the .uk between .org.uk and .co.uk (maybe .me.uk too).

I would offer the matching .uk in order of the final auction amounts achieved across the 3 competing extensions in question. This is literally the only time that Nominet has attempted to squeeze "full market value" out of any UK namespace domains, so those that filled Nominet's coffers to the tune of £3,000,000+ deserve red carpet attention and special treatment.

We can all argue back and forth (as we have been for much of this thread and others) until we're blue in the face whether a .co.uk should in general have precedence over a .org.uk or vice versa, but no matter what one's view it's taken as read that they both cost standard reg fee a year to maintain, and that they were initially registered for regfee (even if they may have changed hands since then). Apples to apples, in other words.

But in a one-off, artificial situation that is entirely of Nominet's own making, it's impossible to ignore the fact that one 2-letter domain holder may have paid literally 10,000x as much as another in auctions that were held near-simultaneously.

I haven't checked the sales amounts achieved, but I am guessing that the likely outcome of the special case mechanism I'm proposing above is that the .co.uk owners will get all of them.

However, the key takeaway is the rationale behind this. It's not because Nominet has decided that for this tiny group, .co.uk should be prioritised. It's because Nominet concedes that there is a real, measurable, known difference in the "stake in the game" between the 3 contestants for each .uk, and that stake has already benefitted Nominet mightily!

 

[Stephen]

All the Rule -for 100% clarity

and the very next sentence after the one you quoted is


You can't pick and choose part of a paragraph and ignore the rest of the SAME paragraph just because it doesn't "fit" your expectations!

As I've said before, I fully acknowledge that many people are uncomfortable with the fact that .org.uk domains have been registered for other-than-non-profit purposes.

However, it's impossible to deny that ALL .org.uk domains are legitimate under Nominet's own "Rules" document. There aren't some that are more legitimate than others, and any attempt to draw a distinction between them at this late stage is revisionism after the fact.

Just trying to balance the argument by both showing at the same point/post, rather than just part of the rule.

The full rule shows both sides, it is each person's decision on how they wish to interpret it, depending on the question being posed.

I do not see it as altering the fact that many .org.uk's are being used for commercial purposes and that Nominet have said it will take no action againist them.

 

[grantw]

Its obviously unfair to penalise .co.uk owners for having a later reg date due the way they were released.

In the same way, if all 3 extensions have a valid right to the .uk it's unfair to penalise .me.uk as the extension wasn't even available to register until 15 years+ after the other two.

The fairer way to do it is the earliest reg date since the date it became physically possible to be registered wins

Grant

 

[websaway]

This is going to happen anyway if some .org.uk are going to take precedence over the .co.uk reg - and it's going to be by direct competitors approaching unknowing .org.uk registrants. So some not-for-profits are going to be in for a windfall...

I don't know why you say it's going to happen.
Nominet have to display that there is a benefit in introducing .uk
As nobody else has been able to propose any benefit whatsoever in it's introduction, how are Nominet going to be able to.
It's not sufficient for Nominet to say 10,000,000 more names will be registered and result in £50,000,000 of additional income. They will have to prove that the introduction will serve a positive purpose for the UK internet community, and they will not be able to do that .

 

[Edwin]

Just trying to balance the argument by both showing at the same point/post, rather than just part of the rule.

The full rule shows both sides, it is each person's decision on how they wish to interpret it, depedning on the question being posed.

No, it really doesn't. There's only one side. You can't interpret the full paragraph any other way!

In the SLD Charter of the SLD Rules for the Open SLDs we do set out certain intentions regarding the class of applicant or use of registrations of the Domain Name which we assume you will comply with when applying for a registration of a Domain Name within an Open SLD. However, we do not forbid applications, and will take no action in respect of registrations that do not comply with the SLD Charters.

 

[GreyWing]

There will still be auctions too, not all .co.uk and .org.uk will take up their rights, or know to take up their rights. There will be auctions for the next release phase according to my unnamed friend at Nominet. Anyone can buy into those auctions.

 

[Pred]

not sure if this has been mentioned, probably has
got one of those nominet reminder emails today about renewing a domain thats overdue...

We think that .uk is A Great Place To Be and we hope you've experienced that
with your domain name

when did they change from .co.uk to .uk in this phrase? very recently I bet

 

[Edwin]

I don't know why you say it's going to happen.
Nominet have to display that there is a benefit in introducing .uk
As nobody else has been able to propose any benefit whatsoever in it's introduction, how are Nominet going to be able to.
It's not sufficient for Nominet to say 10,000,000 more names will be registered and result in £50,000,000 of additional income. They will have to prove that the introduction will serve a positive purpose for the UK internet community, and they will not be able to do that .

No they don't. That's just naive. Who do you think is requiring that "proof"?

Nominet are not on trial. They're not up before a jury, who are going to scrutinise their every word and deed to see if they "measure up" with what they're planning.

They're fighting in the infinitely more lax court of public opinion.

And in that court, all they need to do is get a majority of "broadly favourable" comments, without any deal-busting objections being raised by parties that can't be ignored.

In the case of V1, enough objections were put together (via the media, consultation responses, questions in parliament, private MP communications, etc. etc.) to cast sufficient doubt over the process as it then-stood, and force them to revise it.

In the case of V2, can we expect the same?

I'm not sure, time will tell... but I do know that there's nobody out there waiting in the wings with a checklist that Nominet has to somehow satisfy in order to move ahead with their plans.

 

[Edwin]

There will still be auctions too, not all .co.uk and .org.uk will take up their rights, or know to take up their rights. There will be auctions for the next release phase according to my unnamed friend at Nominet. Anyone can buy into those auctions.

Isn't that fair enough, if the release mechanism is clear enough and the timescales for exercising the take-up rights is long enough?

In other words, if the only names that get to auction are the ones that are "genuinely not wanted after the release mechanism has been implemented" where's the harm in that?

 

[GreyWing]

Isn't that fair enough, if the release mechanism is clear enough and the timescales for exercising the take-up rights is long enough?

In other words, if the only names that get to auction are the ones that are "genuinely not wanted after the release mechanism has been implemented" where's the harm in that?

I'm not saying it isn't mate, what I'm saying is that the profit motivation is still there for Nominet rather than .uk being a good idea for the UK.

I was thinking some had the idea that the potential profit for Nom had disappeared as they moved to v2 from v1

 

[Stephen]

genuinely not wanted?

Isn't that fair enough, if the release mechanism is clear enough and the timescales for exercising the take-up rights is long enough?

In other words, if the only names that get to auction are the ones that are "genuinely not wanted after the release mechanism has been implemented" where's the harm in that?

It does not mean they are "genuinely not wanted",
if Nominet got a waiver from all 3rd level tld's of a domain which showed they know what they were passing up
and then I would have no problem Nominet putting the .uk to auction,
but to do it because somebody didn't do something is simply not enough.

Would you advise anybody who had a .co.uk and the right to the .uk NOT to take it up for £5?

 

[Murray]

There will still be auctions too, not all .co.uk and .org.uk will take up their rights, or know to take up their rights. There will be auctions for the next release phase according to my unnamed friend at Nominet. Anyone can buy into those auctions.

Blergh.

This only benefits people who have deep pockets & nominet.

As I'm neither of the above I really dislike the idea

 

[Brassneck]

I've not really delved into all this. But was wondering, has anything been said about the transfer mechanisms for .uk? Once issued, is the current assumption that they can be transferred / sold to anybody?

Stephen.

 

[Brassneck]

Yes. There are no restrictions, there appears to be no restrictions on sub domains either and there's no linkage of the direct.uk to any corresponding third level .uk that may also be registered to the same registrant.


(from iPhone)

Thanks.

 

[foz]

Thoughts on awarding .co.uk holders with .uk first rights, based on the registration volumes rather than date registered?

.co.uk is almost 93% of the total .uk register

 

[Stephen]

sub domains?

Yes. There are no restrictions, there appears to be no restrictions on sub domains either and there's no linkage of the direct.uk to any corresponding third level .uk that may also be registered to the same registrant.
(from iPhone)

I think that is jumping the gun about about sub domains at the 2nd level.

I'm sure the details of Version 2.0 will have something to say about restricting the use of subdomains at the .uk level, distinguishing between in their internal use and resale use.