Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[GreyWing]

If so, the very best of luck with them enforcing it.


(from iPhone)

They will end up being guidelines like .org.uk, because they won't be able to enforce it, just like being based in the uk....

 

[Retired_Member38]

Thoughts on awarding .co.uk holders with .uk first rights, based on the registration volumes rather than date registered?

Handing them to .co.uk owners makes less sense than going with oldest registrant. If you bought a .co.uk when the .org.uk was already in use, then I would say its tough luck and the .org.uk should win.

Neither method is perfect, but I suspect that overall, oldest reg date is going to be fairer.

 

[GreyWing]

What the can enforce is a valid UK "accommodation address" for service. That's about it otherwise. I don't think they will try to prevent international registrants.

(from iPhone)

Agreed, But they are selling something quite different to MP's who are gullible enough to believe this crap. Then when someone buys something off .uk and gets defrauded, then turns up at a registered address and it is only a mailing address...... Nominet as a company look deceptive for selling it as something UK based, when we are telling them it isn't..

Still the MP's will fall for it

 

[Retired_Member38]

I'm really struggling to understand this UK mailing address issue. Anyone in the world can visit http://www.mbe.co.uk/, pay online and have their choice of an address in any major city in UK. How exactly is that helping security, or anything else?

All I see it doing is generating more unneeded costs for people. I would say Nominet should either go all-in on the UK proposal, or don't do it at all. Enforce UK registrants only (having to pay with your own bank card registered to a UK address), and don't let shill registrations take place (Godaddy will let you register .com.br as an example).

If they aren't going to do that then just remove the silly 'uk address required' nonsense. It adds nothing (apart from some extra expense to people outside of the UK)

 

[Stephen]

UK address needed or not?

I'm really struggling to understand this UK mailing address issue. ...Enforce UK registrants only

Nominet cannot as it would be illegal under EU law to limit only UK residents from registering a .uk domain.

If they aren't going to do that then just remove the silly 'uk address required' nonsense. It adds nothing (apart from some extra expense to people outside of the UK)

I agree, I hope that is what a lot of people tell them again, as they did in the last .uk consultation.

It seemed Nominet were fixated by some UK government department agenda, maybe the Inland Revenue saying they needed a UK contact?

 

[Retired_Member38]

Nominet cannot as it would be illegal under EU law to limit only UK residents from registering a .uk domain.

If .ie can heavily restrict who can register a domain, why can't .uk ?

 

[Retired_Member38]

Most UK "accommodation address" services do or should enforce some kind of proof of identity. Probably to do with money laundering rules. MBE won't set up a box for someone without two forms of ID despite taking an initial order online.

Yes but in real world terms, when you bought an iPhone for £300 from cheapfastiphones.uk and get scammed... when it all starts to unravel what use is scan of an India Telecom utility bill and a copy of a drivers license of someone living in Delhi?

Doesn't exactly fit in with the safer place to do business that they were going on about, does it?

 

[GreyWing]

If .ie can heavily restrict who can register a domain, why can't .uk ?

They can't mate, but there are no losers on that. No EU based ever bothered to use it. So nobody has ever bothered to challenge it is the most probable answer. So as nobody bothered to challenege it, it appears to legally stand. But it hasn't been legally challenged.

On this, lots of co.uk's are Irish based to give one example. They run legitimate fully trading sites... they won't be happy and will challenge it. There are some on this forum that will.

The EU will pay all legal fees of complainants for complaints like these.

 

[websaway]

No they don't. That's just naive. Who do you think is requiring that "proof"?

Nominet are not on trial. They're not up before a jury, who are going to scrutinise their every word and deed to see if they "measure up" with what they're planning.

They're fighting in the infinitely more lax court of public opinion.

And in that court, all they need to do is get a majority of "broadly favourable" comments, without any deal-busting objections being raised by parties that can't be ignored.

In the case of V1, enough objections were put together (via the media, consultation responses, questions in parliament, private MP communications, etc. etc.) to cast sufficient doubt over the process as it then-stood, and force them to revise it.

In the case of V2, can we expect the same?

I'm not sure, time will tell... but I do know that there's nobody out there waiting in the wings with a checklist that Nominet has to somehow satisfy in order to move ahead with their plans.

You say they don't and then go on to say why they do.
They will have to display the need for .uk because it's a massive cost to the public and I think you are naive if you don't think that is the case.
This is a tax on domain owners, and unless they can show that current domain owners don't need to register the equivalent domain in .uk and future co.uk registrants will not need to register the equivalent .uk then a tax on domain owners will be the verdict.
It started off as a security issue now it's about the new top level domains and neither hold water.

 

[websaway]

They always mooted a capacity argument from the outset which is why they stated that direct.uk was in addition/different to the existing SLD's. More capacity for people to register domain names they want and alleviating the concerns that registrants might switch to new gTLD's.


(from iPhone)

But without going into too many permutations for domain owners, the fact is that all .uk domains worth owning will be registered by current and future co.uk owners so not increasing capacity at all and just causing additional costs and confusion.

 

[Retired_Member38]

But without going into too many permutations for domain owners, the fact is that all .uk domains worth owning will be registered by current and future co.uk owners so not increasing capacity at all and just causing additional costs and confusion.

How do you work that out?

Not everyone will want every extension. Some people won't realise. Some people will take the pair then sell one on etc. Its impossible to say its not going to increase capacity - thats simply not true.

 

[websaway]

How do you work that out?

Not everyone will want every extension. Some people won't realise. Some people will take the pair then sell one on etc. Its impossible to say its not going to increase capacity - thats simply not true.

I predict .uk will be the domain to own, yet up to 10,000,000 will be registered by current co.uk owners, then when people register a new co.uk or .uk they will register the other one to protect their position.
Nobody will pay good money for a co.uk or .uk without it's counterpart.
The confusion that has existed since September 2012 has destroyed the market for uk domains, that's the effect of uncertainty, the market had grown because people trusted the co.uk extension, even the org.uk market was growing.
Any suggestion that .uk will fail is just propaganda or wishful thinking, it will immediately gain traction as people are fighting to get geo's onto the extension.
Gradually the co.uk will become less attractive but it will be necessary to register it with a .uk to protect your position and any not taken up will be snapped up by new domainers just like what was happening to the org.uk extension in recent times.

 

[GreyWing]

Gradually the co.uk will become less attractive but it will be necessary to register it with a .uk to protect your position and any not taken up will be snapped up by new domainers just like what was happening to the org.uk extension in recent times.

With domainers buying .org.uk's in the last week with the idea of getting a cheap kill. As Monkey has said, some have already tried to buy some of his names.

This has nothing to do with rights, giving it to the oldest is just a carpet bagging exercise for .org.uk owners who (mostly not all) will sell the rights to .uk on. In my opinion .org.uk's won't use them or move their url onto .uk, they'll just flog them on to competitors of .co.uk or to the .co.uk owners themselves and keep their sites on .org.uk.

 

[viceroy]

With domainers buying .org.uk's in the last week with the idea of getting a cheap kill. As Monkey has said, some have already tried to buy some of his names.

This has nothing to do with rights, giving it to the oldest is just a carpet bagging exercise for .org.uk owners who (mostly not all) will sell the rights to .uk on. In my opinion .org.uk's won't use them or move their url onto .uk, they'll just flog them on to competitors of .co.uk or to the .co.uk owners themselves and keep their sites on .org.uk.

Didn't I say this just a few posts back? I wouldn't be on my own if i started hunting down some .org.uk's - I'm pretty sure that the majority of .org.uk site owners would be more than happy for the windfall even if it's transferred to them first and then sold straight after?

 

[websaway]

With domainers buying .org.uk's in the last week with the idea of getting a cheap kill. As Monkey has said, some have already tried to buy some of his names.

This has nothing to do with rights, giving it to the oldest is just a carpet bagging exercise for .org.uk owners who (mostly not all) will sell the rights to .uk on. In my opinion .org.uk's won't use them or move their url onto .uk, they'll just flog them on to competitors of .co.uk or to the .co.uk owners themselves and keep their sites on .org.uk.

Either I have not made my point in understandable terms or you have not read it.
Either way your comment has no relationship to my post.

 

[GreyWing]

Either I have not made my point in understandable terms or you have not read it.
Either way your comment has no relationship to my post.

Sadly mate, was on my phone and limited screen size, probably didn't see it if it was earlier, but the quote in mine was me confirming I agreed with your recent statement Good to know we think alike.

 

[addz123]

Just wanted to re-post what I said in another thread:

Great, so Nominet could hold back certain domains, which those in Government say could cause confusion between .uk and .gov.uk or .ac.uk, but it's ok to release millions of other domains on .uk, and that wont cause any confusion at all with .co.uk will it, bloody laughable ain't it

It's why I'm so surprised they're trying again at it.

People are only talking about .co.uk/org.uk/me.uk in this thread, but think about all the confusion when you have .uk, then the following:

.co.uk
.gov.uk
.ac.uk
.org.uk
.me.uk

Opening the 2nd level is messy. All 5 of those other domain extensions will lose a large degree of autonomy for their respective purpose.

For instance, why should a university operate on .ac.uk when they could get .uk? Why should a charity operate on .org.uk when they could have .uk? Why should a government site operate on .gov.uk when they could have .uk (e.g. tfl.uk).

Before people say, well there was no confusion between .co.uk and .gov.uk websites, that's apples and oranges. Once you open the 2nd level, it does create confusion.

 

[jonbyrne]

.....

People are only talking about .co.uk/org.uk/me.uk in this thread, but think about all the confusion when you have .uk, then the following:

.co.uk
.gov.uk
.ac.uk
.org.uk
.me.uk

......

I agree with all of that for example manchester.uk would seem to have more authority than manchester.gov.uk and manchester.ac.uk. Also government.uk could be easily confused with gov.uk is someone tried to make it so.

It will be also interesting to see what they do about direct.org.uk which under these proposals would get direct.uk

 

[Systreg]

People are only talking about .co.uk/org.uk/me.uk in this thread, but think about all the confusion when you have .uk, then the following:

.co.uk
.gov.uk
.ac.uk
.org.uk
.me.uk

Opening the 2nd level is messy. All 5 of those other domain extensions will lose a large degree of autonomy for their respective purpose.

Not to mention where people have domain names in the form of these examples, which will only lead to further confusion:

ukwordhere.co.uk
wordhereuk.co.uk
ukwordhere.uk
wordhereuk.uk

Etc etc

 

[Jump]

Funny how no one ever even remembers that .ltd.uk exists - will be funny to see .ltd.uk applications trump Plan B rollout of .uk names when (if) the tld happens.