DomainLore Auction IU.co.uk - On domainlore £50 start no reserve.

[Pred]

agree with Suggys

everyones against shillbidding but too easy to stick knife in and jump to conclusions
Denys should have spoken to Ashton and the winning bidder imho

if he has Ashton's i.p twice then bang to rights, but if what he's saying is someone used a proxy, then by it's very nature he would have some different proxy
it IS possible someone may have tried to disrupt auction and bid silly amounts with no intention of paying, either randomly or to stitch Denys, Ashton or someone else

or Aston did it

proof is needed. however it is good Denys is on top of looking at auctions closely for everyone benefit

 

[grantw]

I didn't think for a minute that Denys would have acted this way and so quickly if he wasn't sure.

He has confirmed to me that Ash is 100% busted and given me some of the basics of the evidence. He's also offered to make more detailed "excessive" evidence available to me if I like - I've declined as I don't feel the need to see it.

Mistakes can happen I guess, in this case it doesn't look like one has been.

If this has been one big screw up I'll publically apologise to Ash for my attitude but at the moment, and from what I've been told, I have no problem with all this being posted on a public forum.

Grant

 

[GreyWing]

Denys may have other security measures that pick these things up and he doesn't want to divulge them because future shill bidders may bypass them. But if someone takes him to court and they ain't 100% innocent then they are taking a big risk.

Denys seems sure to me

 

[newguy]

I've spent a fair amount on domainlore so from that perspective I commend Deny for his efforts to stop shill bidding. I feel that a balance has to be struck. If there is evidence that a specific individual has been shill bidding then I'm all for them being named. If there isn't though, I'm a bit uncomfortable with people just instantly being named because it was their domain for sale. If this is the policy then anyone could intentionally publicly wreck someones reputation with relative ease by bidding on their names using a proxy. Maybe if there is a degree of ambiguity a better solution would be to ban the person from the service, but not make it public. If as Grant says though there is evidence, then of course I understand why this action was taken.

 

[Pred]

ok, well Grant's rep is 110% so sorry Ashton, this doesn't look good
maybe Denys can't reveal his security measures, he's a pretty techy guy I think and builds his sites and systems. he catches enough amazing names, so he is an ace script writer

sad to see, was willing to give benefit

if you are innocent Ashton, suggest you speak to Denys and then maybe see a solicitor

 

[Ashton]

I cant sleep, I am in total shock. I don't even know what to say or do...

EDIT: I would not sue Denys nor take him to court. Hes just trying to protect buyers and I commend him for that. I am shocked I have been named so publicly without even a chance of defence or serious investigation into his 'evidence'

 

[Silverz]

DomainLore has publicly 'named and shamed' Ashley as a shill bidder in a situation where no proof could possibly be given to confirm 100% that it was him, as it has been posted before me, the very nature of a proxy is that the true identity of the person bidding is hidden.

Ashley COULD be guilty, but at the same time there is every chance he is an innocent and someone for whatever reason has put a stop to the auction.

I agree with others that it's commendable the way domainlore is actively cracking down on shill bidding and the like HOWEVER I really do believe that this is domainlore's fault....

Why doesn't domainlore stop this at signup, instead of allowing it past this crucial stage and only flagging when a bid has been made, surely it would be in everyone's best interest to stop this type of account being registered in the first place ?

 

[peter_w]

I cant sleep, I am in total shock. I don't even know what to say or do...

Asking to see the evidence would probably be a reasonable starting point.

 

[Ashton]

Asking to see the evidence would probably be a reasonable starting point.

I asked for his email, no one pmed me, I dont know how to contact him - I have asked Grant to pass me some of the evidence or Denys email.

 

[dotNetFreak]

DomainLore has publicly 'named and shamed' Ashley as a shill bidder in a situation where no proof could possibly be given to confirm 100% that it was him, as it has been posted before me, the very nature of a proxy is that the true identity of the person bidding is hidden.

Sorry, but that's wrong. There are ways that Denys can be sure, in the same way as if the bids had been placed from the same IP. I'm not saying how, but trust me there are.

 

[GreyWing]

I asked for his email, no one pmed me, I dont know how to contact him - I have asked Grant to pass me some of the evidence or Denys email.

There is a contact button on DL http://domainlore.co.uk/domains/contact/

 

[grantw]

I asked for his email, no one pmed me, I dont know how to contact him - I have asked Grant to pass me some of the evidence or Denys email.

I've pm'd you his email address.

Grant

 

[cm1975]

I can only imagine that there is a way of picking up a MAC address via the web page? A proxy site will mask a computer's IP, but the MAC address will always be the same.

PS. I'm not saying either party is correct, merely stating that using a proxy is not completely anonymous.

PPS. I don't know if this is the "evidence" that has been gathered! I'm just guessing what other info might be available.

 

[Ashton]

.

 

[Silverz]

Sorry, but that's wrong. There are ways that Denys can be sure, in the same way as if the bids had been placed from the same IP. I'm not saying how, but trust me there are.

I respect your opinion dotNetFreak, but other than system stats (which is no guarantee) I really can't see how ....only the company that Denys has given us (privatetunnel . com) could know 100%.

I still feel if DomainLore would have had this flagged on signup, which really is in my opinion the best way to stop this type of thing from happening in the first place then it would avoid these types of issues. Stop the accounts being registered in the first place, before a bid can be made.

 

[GreyWing]

I still feel if DomainLore would have had this flagged on signup, which really is in my opinion the best way to stop this type of thing from happening in the first place then it would avoid these types of issues. Stop the accounts being registered in the first place, before a bid can be made.

People stop ripping other domainers off is the best way to stomp this out. What you are saying is like blaming the post office for not having a good enough alarm as 5 robbers bounce through the doors armed with shotguns.

The blame stops with the person shill bidding end of story in my opinion.

 

[Edwin]

Some kind of super-cookie beacon tracker, perhaps?

 

[Slater]

Going through a proxy or NAT firewall would show request originating from the proxy or NAT firewall not the client machine,

 

[Silverz]

People stop ripping other domainers off is the best way to stomp this out. What you are saying is like blaming the post office for not having a good enough alarm as 5 robbers bounce through the doors armed with shotguns.

The blame stops with the person shill bidding end of story in my opinion.

Of course you are absolutely correct GreyWing, however as I've said before, if someone wanted to stop this auction (or any auction on domainlore), or had something against Ashley for instance, then sign up through a proxy, make a bid which then raises the flag to stop the auction automatically ...that isn't fair IF they're innocent. So why not have the flag raised at signup...it's not an extra security layer, this is a matter of changing where the layer is situated, or even better have both in place....it wouldn't be that hard to include.

In a perfect world there would be no scammers, but it isn't, but because there is a possibility someone could attack a possible innocent in this way, it would really make sense to stop the account being opened with a proxy before a bid is made is all I'm saying.

 

[peter_w]

if someone wanted to stop this auction (or any auction on domainlore), or had something against Ashley for instance, then sign up through a proxy, make a bid which then raises the flag to stop the auction automatically ...that isn't fair IF they're innocent.

I highly doubt that is all it takes for Denys to publish the kind of message he has.

I would assume the evidence could include:

- The fact a proxy was used
- Cookie of some sort
- Ashley's account logging out a minute before the shill bid account logged in, and then the same thing after
- Perhaps an IP match somewhere
- Something that links the email accounts
- Other 'tech' which I assume we won't be told about